Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

1. That sentence doesn't make sense...

2. Ignorance is defined as Lack of knowledge or information.

I stated outright that I understand he was suffering from mental illness and didn't understand what he did was wrong.

Regardless of that, after what he did I still feel he should be permanently confined to his mental health facility and unable to leave it.

What they're talking about is releasing him for 30 minute -to- day long trips into Selkirk with an aide and a peace officer (with cell phone).

I think after what he did, he shouldn't have the opportunity to do even that. Both because of the (what they feel to be remote) chance he may re-offend, and the severity of the first crime being so egregious.

I get that you feel differently, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I just disagree.



Hey Dion,

A schizophrenic cannibalistic murder is going to be walking around downtown tomorrow when your wife and kids are out and about but don't worry there's only a 0.8% chance he might do something like that again and there's a doctor and a guy with a cell phone watching over him so it's all good.

You feel me now? Again, I understand the ruling and read the same articles you did. I just disagree with it... and the above is one of the biggest reasons why.

You can disagree, but how can you call anyone who might have a problem with that "ignorant"?

You might want to add a couple dozen zeroes in front of that if you want to be anywhere close to reality. He's medicated and supervised, there is next to no chance that he jaywalks while out of the facility, let alone does something remotely similar.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I could be wrong, but I think that's what's happening here. I think he's getting a few "day passes" here and there, with supervision to make sure he stays on his meds. Or I cuold be wrong, I didn't really read the article.

You are completely right.

He is not being so called "parolled" and out on his own.

He is getting a half hour of 100% SUPERVISED time away from the facility he is being treated at.

[Hilch]

I love the bleeding hearts in this thread. The guy brutally murdered someone and ate them and you think that him getting released is a good idea because we are all ignorant and he can be fixed. Well what happens if he goes off his meds? What happens if he does it again?

Between krynski and Dion it looks like this guy will have a place to stay when he gets out. I'm sure both of you would love for this guy to be around your family since he is all better now and a person has never relapsed since being cured.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Hilch

I love the bleeding hearts in this thread. The guy brutally murdered someone and ate them and you think that him getting released is a good idea because we are all ignorant and he can be fixed. Well what happens if he goes off his meds? What happens if he does it again?

Between krynski and Dion it looks like this guy will have a place to stay when he gets out. I'm sure both of you would love for this guy to be around your family since he is all better now and a person has never relapsed since being cured.

Perhaps you should try understanding what is happening and what people are saying before you go off on rants

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by valo403

Perhaps you should try understanding what is happening and what people are saying before you go off on rants

Then what would to the point of the internet be?

Have people not stated that he could be cured with medication?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Hilch

I love the bleeding hearts in this thread. The guy brutally murdered someone and ate them and you think that him getting released is a good idea because we are all ignorant and he can be fixed. Well what happens if he goes off his meds? What happens if he does it again?

Between krynski and Dion it looks like this guy will have a place to stay when he gets out. I'm sure both of you would love for this guy to be around your family since he is all better now and a person has never relapsed since being cured.

You do know what they say about assumptions?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Hilch

Then what would to the point of the internet be?

Have people not stated that he could be cured with medication?

Nope, they've said he could be treated. They've explicitly said that no "cure" exists. They've also never advocated that he be released, they've only stated that supervised day passes don't pose a danger.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Hilch

I love the bleeding hearts in this thread. The guy brutally murdered someone and ate them and you think that him getting released is a good idea because we are all ignorant and he can be fixed. Well what happens if he goes off his meds? What happens if he does it again?

Well, if he manages to go off his meds, wait for the drugs to clear his system, experience a psychotic break and then behead someone while under the supervision of a health care worker and an armed escort all in the space of 30 minutes then you can come back into this thread to let us know how wrong we were.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Hilch

I love the bleeding hearts in this thread. The guy brutally murdered someone and ate them and you think that him getting released is a good idea because we are all ignorant and he can be fixed. Well what happens if he goes off his meds? What happens if he does it again?

Between krynski and Dion it looks like this guy will have a place to stay when he gets out. I'm sure both of you would love for this guy to be around your family since he is all better now and a person has never relapsed since being cured.

Mommy? Daddy? I always wanted a brother to play with!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hilch

Then what would to the point of the internet be?

Have people not stated that he could be cured with medication?

I don't think you quite understand what's been happening in regards to this case.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by valo403

You might want to add a couple dozen zeroes in front of that if you want to be anywhere close to reality. He's medicated and supervised, there is next to no chance that he jaywalks while out of the facility, let alone does something remotely similar.

You might want to read the article before you attempt to sound like an authority on the subject.

That percentage was given by the leading doctors in his case.

2nd, he's going to be supervised by a doctor and an unarmed peace officer.

I've already said my main point is that he shouldn't be able to leave the facility after what he did regardless of the chance he'll re-offend. But regardless of that stance, if I lived in the small community of Selkirk (and being from Winnipeg originally I do know people who live there) I'd have a huge problem with that regardless of the stats the Doctors throw out.

Again, this is all subjective and a matter of opinion.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

You might want to read the article before you attempt to sound like an authority on the subject.

That percentage was given by the leading doctors in his case.

2nd, he's going to be supervised by a doctor and an unarmed peace officer.

I've already said my main point is that he shouldn't be able to leave the facility after what he did regardless of the chance he'll re-offend. But regardless of that stance, if I lived in the small community of Selkirk (and being from Winnipeg originally I do know people who live there) I'd have a huge problem with that regardless of the stats the Doctors throw out.

Again, this is all subjective and a matter of opinion.

And that percentage is based on just sending him out on his own, which is not at all what is happening here. As you point out, he will be escorted and monitored. If you don't think that massively reduces the risk of re-offending you're being intentionally dense.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by valo403

And that percentage is based on just sending him out on his own, which is not at all what is happening here.

Really? Care to provide a link to where that point is made clear?

All I've seen is this:

Mr. Li's psychiatrist, Dr. Steven Kremer, told the review board (which looks annually at Mr. Li's case) that his patient is on medication and experiencing no symptoms or hallucinations. Assessments have shown him to have a 0.8% chance of reoffending in the next seven years.

Between that and pulling a number out of your rear end to skew the percentage I'd say you're the one who's being intentionally dense. You're making things up for the sake of being argumentative.

Originally Posted by valo403

As you point out, he will be escorted and monitored. If you don't think that massively reduces the risk of re-offending you're being intentionally dense.

I fail to see what's difficult to understand about the point I'm trying to make regardless if you agree with it or not.

1. I don't think he should be allowed out regardless of the chance he'll re-offend is because he's a violent cannibalistic murder. That has nothing to do with a chance he'll flip out. I think he should have lost any privileges to the outside world when he killed and ate that guy.

2. My first point aside... I think allowing a guy like that out on his own without someone with a gun or tazer watching over him is too much of a risk in my opinion. I think residents of the community he's going to able to stroll around in have every right to be upset with those odds no matter how small they are after what this guy did.

[afc wimbledon]

Just to be clear, having gone through this with a few clients, escorted day parole is the first stage in him recieving unescorted day parole and then eventually full release, assuming that the day paroles go well (which they almost certainly will due to the level of supervision).

Assuming this follows the timescale of most of my ex clients (which the noteriaty of the case might change) Li will be out in a year to two years.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I don't think you quite understand what's been happening in regards to this case.

I understand that escorted day passes will quickly turn into a full release. Then the community he gets released in will just have to hope he stays on his meds, even though the odds are greatly against that. I just hope another innocent person isn't harmed or killed again because some doctor thinks it's okay. Maybe that doctor would recommend his release in his neighbourhood, ya right!

[Dion]

Supervised visits is a long way from release, or even unsupervised visits. Somehow I doubt his doctor would recommend full unescorted release. Considering the severity of his crime and the high possibly of Li going off his meds, escorted walks in the community is about all he will get.

[henriksedin33]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Quote:

Mr. Li's psychiatrist, Dr. Steven Kremer, told the review board (which looks annually at Mr. Li's case) that his patient is on medication and experiencing no symptoms or hallucinations. Assessments have shown him to have a 0.8% chance of reoffending in the next seven years.

Attempting to quantify this is an absolute JOKE and I find it hard to put ANY faith in a doctor who attempts to do so. Is he basing this off the huge sample size of schizo's who have beheaded and eaten people who they thought were aliens? Is schizophrenia a "yes" or "no", with no varying degrees of severity or other contributing factors at play? Because from his estimate it would seem to be a "one size fits all" diagnosis...

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Just to be clear, having gone through this with a few clients, escorted day parole is the first stage in him recieving unescorted day parole and then eventually full release, assuming that the day paroles go well (which they almost certainly will due to the level of supervision).

Assuming this follows the timescale of most of my ex clients (which the noteriaty of the case might change) Li will be out in a year to two years.

Aren't you a child care worker? If so, somehow I doubt you've dealt with many murderous, cannibalistic, schizophrenic adult patients.

[VO #23]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Aren't you a child care worker? If so, somehow I doubt you've dealt with many murderous, cannibalistic, schizophrenic adult patients.

Let alone ones with a huge media profile. He's not getting out anytime soon.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by henriksedin33

Attempting to quantify this is an absolute JOKE and I find it hard to put ANY faith in a doctor who attempts to do so. Is he basing this off the huge sample size of schizo's who have beheaded and eaten people who they thought were aliens? Is schizophrenia a "yes" or "no", with no varying degrees of severity or other contributing factors at play? Because from his estimate it would seem to be a "one size fits all" diagnosis...

You're preaching to the choir with this.

I can't see how they can put any kind of specific odds on his chances to re-offend.

All the more reason (in this case) he should be locked away without the privilege of day trips.