I clicked on thi thread hoping to relive some good old memories. I haven't played in 20 years and I have no idea what any of you are talking about. I feel really old right now.
I am a DM at Sentry Box on Friday nights. Some of the people that play this, and Magic: The Gathering are, how would I put it...interesting. My group is a pretty chill group however.
As for people starting out in the game, I'd say go with Pathfinder. It looks like Wizards is going to be killing 4th Edition because it has been such an epic failure. Pathfinder will live on, while D&D is waiting for its next big incarnation.
The best edition of the game is 3.5, though it may be hard to track down the books now. And Pathfinder is essentially 3.5 rules with many added enhancements.
How'd they destroy Forgotten Realms as a setting? That's where most of our campaigns were set. I don't understand how new combat and character creation rules would have any effect on a setting.
They rebooted the FR alongside 4th edition. It takes some 100-odd years in the future, after a massive cataclysm that destroyed much of the original FR setting. New cities, new characters, new factions, etc. are in it, now, with many old ones removed (particularly NPCs). A lot of the accrued lore of the FR has been stripped bare and replaced with new stuff. Neverwinter was detroyed, the Zhents are nothing much anymore, etc. The greatest strength of the FR was its lore -- there was so much! The stuff in the new 4th edition FR book that replaces it is bland and lacks detail. It kind of blows.
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
They rebooted the FR alongside 4th edition. It takes some 100-odd years in the future, after a massive cataclysm that destroyed much of the original FR setting. New cities, new characters, new factions, etc. are in it, now, with many old ones removed (particularly NPCs). A lot of the accrued lore of the FR has been stripped bare and replaced with new stuff. Neverwinter was detroyed, the Zhents are nothing much anymore, etc. The greatest strength of the FR was its lore -- there was so much! The stuff in the new 4th edition FR book that replaces it is bland and lacks detail. It kind of blows.
What a completely stupid thing to do. The entire point of the adventure setting is to have that history and lore to draw from and use in your own campaign. Whether it's Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Ebberron, Greyhawk, whatever, it's a backdrop for what you make happen and eliminating all those tools is ridiculous.
Kinda not surprising at all that Monte Cook left the design team for 5th Edition with choices WOTC are making.
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I clicked on thi thread hoping to relive some good old memories. I haven't played in 20 years and I have no idea what any of you are talking about. I feel really old right now.
3.0 and 3.5 was an open source system. Paizo published Dragon and Dungeon magazine, apart from Wizards. When Wizards decided to publish 4.0, they ended open source, and published Dragon and Dungeon themselves on-line only. Paizo decided to keep 3.5 alive by publishing Pathfinder, which is compatible with all the old 3.5 books. Pathfinder has its own campaign setting, Golarian.
I would not recommend D&D 4th edition to anyone, especially starting players. It has some appeal and some people do like it, but you need pretty specific tastes or a strong background in D&D.
It's been a long time since I've heard so many people vent their frustrations over a specific game, and most of those complainers were very excited at the start.
It's an especially bad sign that I know a ton of people who have grown to hate it more the more they play it. My group was for example like this. It became so bad that it was either change the system mid-campaign or end the campaign alltogether.
D&D 3.5 on the other hand is one of the better systems I've ever played with. (It does bog down badly after the 12th level and falls apart once you start reaching 14th-15th level. But from character levels 2-10 it's just great fun.)
Pathfinder I've never tried but heard nothing but good about it really.
I'm starting a new campaign up in the Nentir Vale next month for a group of 4 new players. Should be fun. I don't have many minis, but I think I'll start investing in some (I just have the D&D ones from Castle Ravenloft). They really help create an attachment to characters and help with visualization. I love minis, but I understand why some don't like 4th Editions reliance on them.
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
As for people starting out in the game, I'd say go with Pathfinder. It looks like Wizards is going to be killing 4th Edition because it has been such an epic failure. Pathfinder will live on, while D&D is waiting for its next big incarnation.
The best edition of the game is 3.5, though it may be hard to track down the books now. And Pathfinder is essentially 3.5 rules with many added enhancements.
Personally, I think the Pathfinder product is better for what you're looking for as it's clearly specifically designed for both Newbie GM's and Newbie players. Also, it gives you all the accessories whereas the D&D set would require you to also buy a mat, miniatures and and adventure separately. There may be a D&D beginner set as well, but I can't find it in the wizards.com store. AND I think Pathfinder is a more entertaining game than 4th Ed.
Whichever way you go, you're DEFINITELY going to want to get a pre-built adventure path. I've only played one 4th Ed Adventure and it was pretty good, but I know the Pathfinder ones are very well done.
You're going to want to do this because it will really really help you get the game going as the GM - I'm assuming you're going to be the GM - there is a steep-ass learning curve for running a game and jumping right into campaign creation would be hugely challenging.
While they are not absolutely necessary, the accessories like miniatures and a grid-map make a massive difference when playing the game.
Thanks Guys. I think I will check the pathfinder box out when I get a chance.
For those who are missing the game, you can get a taste in casual play by post here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/
Basically, you post a character action once a day or so and the stories evolve very slowly.
My group plays Pathfinder too as I followed the Dungeon to Paizo Pathfinder adventure paths to Pathfinder ruleset. For those who would understand such things, I am running a Rise of the Runelords/Kingmaker mashup campaign. My commentary and mini-recaps of each session is here: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2zie?GoB...paign-Spoilers
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You mean Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, right?
As for D&D4e, I like it more than the previous versions because it is simpler and has more to do with the tactics. Mostly because at my age I want to go sit down and play and not remember if I needed to add a bonus to my thac0 for my 4th and 16th atttacks on the round that were made with off-hand weapons. When I level up, I need to make one or 2 choices, with a simple online editor that prints ou my character sheet and powers cards. Each power has dice you roll and modifiers already put in so you know you roll this many dice for this attack. It really helps with some of the novice players in my group as well.
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Keeping track of all the condition changes during a long battle can be a bitch, though, if you don't have the proper hardware (I have this awesome token set), and there are a lot of status changing effects in 4e powers.
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
I use a stack of old business cards for initiative and tracking conditions that I hold in my left hand. Finish a turn, move the character's card card to the back of the stack. Delayed or readied action, flip the card 90 degrees.
Each character has a card, each group of monsters has a card, tick off rounds on the card, monster conditions go on my scratch sheet with their HP.
