North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Knalus

So much about the discussion in this thread saddens me. There isn't a single position anyone has brought forward from either end that sounds fair and right. So much anger all around.

That's what I'm afraid the real end of this civilization is going to be from. People can't argue calmly, no one wants to hear a point of view from the other side without mocking it, and if a discussion really happens, it degenerates into a place where only one point of view is welcome.

There is a lot of Hate being directed at people being accused of Hate. The irony would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

At the end of the day...it is about people who put their religious philosophy ahead of their civil rights philosophy...

and vice versa.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Knalus

So much about the discussion in this thread saddens me. There isn't a single position anyone has brought forward from either end that sounds fair and right. So much anger all around.

Do you have a suggestion to resolve this issue that is "fair and right"?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Knalus

So much about the discussion in this thread saddens me. There isn't a single position anyone has brought forward from either end that sounds fair and right. So much anger all around.

That's what I'm afraid the real end of this civilization is going to be from. People can't argue calmly, no one wants to hear a point of view from the other side without mocking it, and if a discussion really happens, it degenerates into a place where only one point of view is welcome.

There is a lot of Hate being directed at people being accused of Hate. The irony would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

Well don't just sit there and hint at it, let's hear it.

What's your view, what's the rationale behind it, and what's your solution?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Knalus

There is a lot of Hate being directed at people being accused of Hate. The irony would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy which describes a situation where there is a logical and apparent equivalence, but when in fact there is none.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Do you have a suggestion to resolve this issue that is "fair and right"?

No I don't.


I know you probably expected me to, but I don't.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Knalus

No I don't.


I know you probably expected me to, but I don't.

Can you explain why allowing gays to marry with the same rights as heterosexuals isn't fair and right?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Knalus

So much about the discussion in this thread saddens me. There isn't a single position anyone has brought forward from either end that sounds fair and right. So much anger all around.

That's what I'm afraid the real end of this civilization is going to be from. People can't argue calmly, no one wants to hear a point of view from the other side without mocking it, and if a discussion really happens, it degenerates into a place where only one point of view is welcome.

There is a lot of Hate being directed at people being accused of Hate. The irony would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

Freedoms and human rights issues shouldn't ever be issues. They should be accepted fact. Its ironic a country that claims to be "Home of the free" is one of the most freedom restricting countries in the western world. Until those who oppose equal rights can give a legit reason for doing so (and no that book with the snake and apple and virgin mother doesn't count), then people like me who do support 100% equality and freedom for all will not be happy or satisfied. If people want a country where they can practice their religious bigotry freely, well there's always Saudi Arabia.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

This doesn't make any sense. Anti-gay marriage proponents are considered by some posters to be hateful. Other posters spew hateful messages about the suspected religion and/or reasoning behind why they would act that way. How is that false equivalence? My statement was based on actions in this thread, not based on deductive reasoning.

[afc wimbledon]

Actually the answer is obvious from any point of view, if everyone minded their own business and worried about just their own soul God will take care of the judging.

Churches and the religeous are in no way obligated to marry gays or engage in gay sex (although in the case of more than a few priests and pastors this would be an improvement) that said it is none of their damn business what the state decides to recognise, render unto etc etc.

This whole arguement shows how little the faithfull acually trust or believe in God, if he had a problem with what we are up to he would do something about it, he doesn't need us to do his work for him, God, assuming he exists, wants us to have the free will to make good and bad decisions that we will then be judged on, the idea that the state is supposed to do Gods work for him is in reality an admission that those people don't think is God really is all that powerfull.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I'd LOVE to hear Mikey's explanation of what Cultural Marxism is...

The first chapter of Anders Breivik's manifesto is called "Cultural Marxism." It freely interchanges leftists and multiculturalists with it. I have a feeling mikey, and many others of these nationalist-types all subscribe to a similar definition of the term.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Can you explain why allowing gays to marry with the same rights as heterosexuals isn't fair and right?

I can try, but I doubt it will change your mind.

In an environment this hostile, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be exposed to whatever insults will be coming my way.

Allowing gays to marry isn't right, but neither is denying them. Catch-22. There is no right answer. There is only wrong answers. There are no winners in this argument.

Which is why I really don't want to argue it with you.

[Senator Clay Davis]

So you're effectively admitting you're argument is weak, will get torn apart, so rather than take insults for not supporting equality, you'll take the cop out? Thats why us full equal rights supporters don't like those who don't, mostly because they're cowards.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I can try, but I doubt it will change your mind.

In an environment this hostile, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be exposed to whatever insults will be coming my way.

Allowing gays to marry isn't right, but neither is denying them. Catch-22. There is no right answer. There is only wrong answers. There are no winners in this argument.

Which is why I really don't want to argue it with you.

I don't want to argue with you (at least not insultingly), I want to know why you think it's not right or fair.

Why isn't allowing gay people to marry not right? I won't insult you, but if you want to be taken seriously in any sort of rational discussion, I hope you don't quote a non-evidence based source.

[MarchHare]

Allowing gays to marry isn't right

Can you explain further why you feel this way?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I can try, but I doubt it will change your mind.

In an environment this hostile, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be exposed to whatever insults will be coming my way.

Allowing gays to marry isn't right, but neither is denying them. Catch-22. There is no right answer. There is only wrong answers. There are no winners in this argument.

Which is why I really don't want to argue it with you.

Well something has to give way, and I'd say the only fair solution is to choose the path in which everyone's right to do as they please is most respected.

Allowing gay marriage grants that right to one group of people.

Denying gay marriage does not infringe upon the rights of any group of people.

Wow, that was actually pretty easy.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Allowing gays to marry isn't right, but neither is denying them. Catch-22. There is no right answer.

No I think there are right answers, it's just depends on your willingness to separate church and state.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I can try, but I doubt it will change your mind.

In an environment this hostile, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be exposed to whatever insults will be coming my way.

Allowing gays to marry isn't right, but neither is denying them. Catch-22. There is no right answer. There is only wrong answers. There are no winners in this argument.

Which is why I really don't want to argue it with you.

why?

why is allowing them to marry any worse than allowing them to vote or work or buy a house or have a boyfriend or live, why not stone them, as I believe the bible advocates?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Actually the answer is obvious from any point of view, if everyone minded their own business and worried about just their own soul God will take care of the judging.

Churches and the religeous are in no way obligated to marry gays or engage in gay sex (although in the case of more than a few priests and pastors this would be an improvement) that said it is none of their damn business what the state decides to recognise, render unto etc etc.

This whole arguement shows how little the faithfull acually trust or believe in God, if he had a problem with what we are up to he would do something about it, he doesn't need us to do his work for him, God, assuming he exists, wants us to have the free will to make good and bad decisions that we will then be judged on, the idea that the state is supposed to do Gods work for him is in reality an admission that those people don't think is God really is all that powerfull.

This would likely be the best answer out of them all. But from listening to those who are howling for whatever reason they are so angry, I doubt that the highlighted portion will be left alone. Which is why there is the argument.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Can you explain further why you feel this way?

No.