Oilers a model franchise

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by e-townchamps@Sep 21 2004, 05:59 PM
Snakeeye, it is a rivalry right? I'm sure we'd be bragging if the Oilers beat the Flames at a game of chess...that one conferance championship can go along the the Ducks and 'Canes and Capitals...

as for drafting, both teams seem to be on the upward swing and hopefully we'll battling it out for 1st again!

Heh, true enough. I never said I wouldnt be one of those bums fighting for that pizza crust.

Hopefully your last comment is accurate, but I have serious misgivings about Lowe's qualifications as GM. I believe the Oilers will have a couple more down years before it gets turned around.

[demzor]

Originally posted by BigRed+Sep 21 2004, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigRed @ Sep 21 2004, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-e-townchamps@Sep 21 2004, 05:59 PM

as for drafting, both teams seem to be on the upward swing and hopefully we'll battling it out for 1st again!

don't know about that ... in all seriousness, i was kind of shocked with the oilers' 1st round picks this year. not that chucko has proven anything, either, but is there anyone in the oilers' system even close to phaneuf? [/b][/quote]
Theres not many teams who have a Phaneuf in the system.
But one bull dont make a farm, guy...

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by demzor@Sep 21 2004, 12:15 PM
Theres not many teams who have a Phaneuf in the system.
But one bull dont make a farm guy...

Nope, thankfully the Flames have a good -- not great -- prospect group to pull from. If the Russian trio decide to come over shortly I like our prospect group pretty good. Taratukhin, Medvedev, Trubachev. Then Nystrom, VanDerGulik, Ramholt, Tardiff, Krahn, Cunning, Chucko, Prust, Boyd, Seeitsonen. I am more then okay with that group. I think Nystrom, Phaneuf, Prust and maybe one more are going to make the jump to the NHL in 2-3 years.

So while Phaneuf is the only elite prospect, the rest of the group fills out nicely IMO.

[demzor]

Well, as we've discussed before, I'm taking the Oilers system by a country mile after Phaneuf.

And hey.. if the Oilers stink it up like the Flames did to get Phaneuf.. who knows who we might pick! :P

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by demzor@Sep 21 2004, 06:23 PM
Well, as we've discussed before, I'm taking the Oilers system by a country mile after Phaneuf.

And hey.. if the Oilers stink it up like the Flames did to get Phaneuf.. who knows who we might pick! :P

We do know. Jason Bonsignore.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by demzor@Sep 21 2004, 12:23 PM
Well, as we've discussed before, I'm taking the Oilers system by a country mile after Phaneuf.

I was talking about the Flames prospect pool, this wasn't an Edmonton vs Calgary prospect discussion. It was purely about me liking the Flames prospects and you saying that all they have is Phaneuf, which is incorrect. They have a a very good group of young players.

[demzor]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Sep 21 2004, 06:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Sep 21 2004, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-demzor@Sep 21 2004, 06:23 PM
Well, as we've discussed before, I'm taking the Oilers system by a country mile after Phaneuf.

And hey.. if the Oilers stink it up like the Flames did to get Phaneuf.. who knows who we might pick! :P

We do know. Jason Bonsignore.

[/b][/quote]
Hey.. we got Ryan Smyth low! :P

[demzor]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Sep 21 2004, 06:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Sep 21 2004, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-demzor@Sep 21 2004, 12:23 PM
Well, as we've discussed before, I'm taking the Oilers system by a country mile after Phaneuf.

I was talking about the Flames prospect pool, this wasn't an Edmonton vs Calgary prospect discussion. It was purely about me liking the Flames prospects and you saying that all they have is Phaneuf, which is incorrect. They have a a very good group of young players. [/b][/quote]
All well and good.. but the conversation you entered into WAS about the Oilers/Flames

[looooob]

well this thread has certainly derailed

what started out as a general interest topic with Ethan Moreau claiming that the Oilers are an example that the current CBA is just fine

evolved into a Sens fan saying that the Oilers could have had more on ice success if they had only drafted better (does anyone disagree with this?)

has de-volved into a p*ssing match about whether the Oilers or Flames have drafted better than each other, when clearly both have been terrible

[freakinsaprikin]

Originally posted by looooob@Sep 21 2004, 06:41 PM
well this thread has certainly derailed

what started out as a general interest topic with Ethan Moreau claiming that the Oilers are an example that the current CBA is just fine

evolved into a Sens fan saying that the Oilers could have had more on ice success if they had only drafted better (does anyone disagree with this?)

has de-volved into a p*ssing match about whether the Oilers or Flames have drafted better than each other, when clearly both have been terrible

I agree, in fact i think the flames have done a much better job then the oilers at drafting poorly.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by demzor+Sep 21 2004, 06:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (demzor @ Sep 21 2004, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

We do know. Jason Bonsignore.

Hey.. we got Ryan Smyth low! :P [/b][/quote]
Ryan Smyth Lowe? that would be great if you were selecting a team ugly all stars. hehehe

but then again who has 5 cups?? I love Oiler Fans

[JiriHrdina]

I find it irritating that a Sens fan managed to start another p*ssing match between Oiler and Flames fans.

I say we gang up on him and cite Alexandre Daigle as the pinnacle of bad drafting.

[BlackRedGold25]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Sep 22 2004, 12:00 AM
I find it irritating that a Sens fan managed to start another p*ssing match between Oiler and Flames fans.

I say we gang up on him and cite Alexandre Daigle as the pinnacle of bad drafting.

Like starting one of those between Oiler and Flame fans is SO difficult. Hell, it's easier to do that then to convince a Leaf fan that the Leafs can acquire anyone in the league with a package of Reichel, Berg and Domi.

C'mon Alex Daigle rules. That guy was money in Ott..... Phil... Tamp... Rang.. Pitts... Minnesota! Yeah! That's it! He was money in Minnesota!

At least Flames fans are under no illusions that their team had bad managment in the 90's. A lot of Oiler fans feel that they should have won the Cup if they didn't have to trade away a couple players who haven't done much elsewhere even though they couldn't draft worth a damn.

[speeds]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Sep 20 2004, 06:39 PM
If everyone is competing with roughly the same payroll, long forgotten concepts like scouting and player development can create a dynasty. Moreau's beloved Oilers were what some might call a "decent" team for a long time in the 80's and into the 90's. I think their payroll was pretty much on par with everyone else, wasn't it? What about the Islanders or the Habs before them?

I very sincerley doubt that EDM had anything but a top 5 payroll when they were a dynasy club. I've never seen anything written about that that I can source, but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere once upon a time. And I'm also pretty sure PITT had the highest NHL payroll in their heyday.

Stealing this point/question from another board, but it's one that IMO is worth repeating:

If we didn't know the salaries today like we didn't in the 80's, would we even have this talk about big markets, small markets, etc?

The reason the Oilers haven't been a top club in this CBA is their horrendous, and I mean horrendous, drafting. That's it. You can complain about money all you want, it's very likely that if they drafted worth a damn they'd have a better team, able to charge more for a ticket, have earned more home playoff gates, etc.

[e-townchamps]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied+Sep 21 2004, 08:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bertuzzied @ Sep 21 2004, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
al

Hey.. we got Ryan Smyth low! :P

Ryan Smyth Lowe? that would be great if you were selecting a team ugly all stars. hehehe

but then again who has 5 cups?? I love Oiler Fans [/b][/quote]
but then again, who was the WC championship? god I love Flamers ...
heed your own advice...
although this has turned into a p*ssing match, I think we can all agree that we've both sucked in he drafting department

[Language]

[quote]Originally posted by speeds@Sep 22 2004, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos,Sep 20 2004, 06:39 PM

The reason the Oilers haven't been a top club in this CBA is their horrendous, and I mean horrendous, drafting. That's it. You can complain about money all you want, it's very likely that if they drafted worth a damn they'd have a better team, able to charge more for a ticket, have earned more home playoff gates, etc.

There's no denying that the drafting was horrendous, and that it is only improving now. But saying that is the only reason, and money isn't that big of a deal is a pretty big stretch.

If the Oilers were able to keep Guerin, Weight, Hamrlik, and Curtis Joseph, on top of already having Ryan Smyth, that is still a very good list of essentials. A number one centre, a number one winger, a #1-2 defenceman, and a number one goalie right there. That's a pretty good base to build around if we had the money to keep them.

[Seachd]

Originally posted by leonk19@Sep 22 2004, 04:24 AM
There's no denying that the drafting was horrendous, and that it is only improving now. But saying that is the only reason, and money isn't that big of a deal is a pretty big stretch.

I agree. Who exactly has Toronto drafted that makes them a competitive team (sickeningly enough)? There's got to be a bit of a balance between drafting, development, trading, signing, etc. I'm not prepared to say it was all about the drafting, because I have a hard time believing it's true.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Seachd+Sep 22 2004, 05:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Seachd @ Sep 22 2004, 05:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-leonk19@Sep 22 2004, 04:24 AM
There's no denying that the drafting was horrendous, and that it is only improving now. But saying that is the only reason, and money isn't that big of a deal is a pretty big stretch.

I agree. Who exactly has Toronto drafted that makes them a competitive team (sickeningly enough)? There's got to be a bit of a balance between drafting, development, trading, signing, etc. I'm not prepared to say it was all about the drafting, because I have a hard time believing it's true. [/b][/quote]
I think the last player Toronto actually developed into something (well not much) Was Felix Potvin. Seriously.

I don't count Stajan at the moment since he hasn't really amounted to much of anything, but maybe down the line he could be #2 over the past 10 years.

[speeds]

Originally posted by Seachd+Sep 22 2004, 05:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Seachd @ Sep 22 2004, 05:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-leonk19@Sep 22 2004, 04:24 AM
There's no denying that the drafting was horrendous, and that it is only improving now. But saying that is the only reason, and money isn't that big of a deal is a pretty big stretch.

I agree. Who exactly has Toronto drafted that makes them a competitive team (sickeningly enough)? There's got to be a bit of a balance between drafting, development, trading, signing, etc. I'm not prepared to say it was all about the drafting, because I have a hard time believing it's true. [/b][/quote]
I can see what you are saying, but TOR is IMO a bad example because they are a team that can make money no matter how awful their team is, so they can aford to buy players at their whim. DET doesn't have that advantage, COL doesn't, the only other team like that in the NHL might be NYR.

There was nothing stopping EDM from being OTT under this CBA besides putrid drafting and development of drafted players.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 22 2004, 05:37 AM
I think the last player Toronto actually developed into something (well not much) Was Felix Potvin. Seriously.

I don't count Stajan at the moment since he hasn't really amounted to much of anything, but maybe down the line he could be #2 over the past 10 years.

I'd argue guys like Modin, Sullivan, etc were all developed by Toronto. Doesn't make up for the fact they waived or dealt them in horrible deals but they were brought up through the system.