New Taxi License Debate - Half to Brokers? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

bizaro86 · 05-07-2012, 09:43 AM

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome

This article talks about a debate in city council about adding 55 more taxi licenses. I've never had a problem getting a cab, because I mostly use them from downtown during the day. I understand it's hard to get one at night, and I really don't see why we couldn't trust the free market to regulate the number of taxis anyway.

Also, the article mentions half the licences would go to brokers. I'm not sure I understand who benefits by selling licenses to brokers who sublet them to drivers. The solution to low cab driver incomes is to make them rent a plate from a broker?!?

Thoughts?

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 09:47 AM

Getting a cab in Calgary at any sort of peak hour is impossible. I may have a few friends coming out for Stampede this year and I'm actually preparing them for the embarrassment that is the transportation options in Calgary at night. It's truly pathetic.

Canehdianman · 05-07-2012, 10:55 AM

I see the dangers in selling unlimited taxi licenses, but I definitely think we could have more available than we do now.

I'm not sure, but I think the benefit of selling to brokers instead of individual drivers is that the brokers share a license between several drivers, thereby keeping the cab on the road 24/7? That's a complete guess, by the way, but it would make sense to me.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 11:01 AM

I don't understand any of the argument against allowing an unlimited number of cabs. The industry should be regulated for safety and such but what makes cabs so special that they aren't allowed to compete in the free market.

We have unlimited cabs in Grande Prairie and no fixed rates and it seems to work out fine. It is a smaller market, but some of the companies have started offering flat fare rides anywhere in the city.

We don't limit the number of ice cream stands in the city or anything else for that matter so why taxis?

Handsome B. Wonderful · 05-07-2012, 11:23 AM

I will continue on my multi-year boycott of Calgary taxi companies.

Ashartus · 05-07-2012, 11:29 AM

Cab drivers and brokers are resistant to unlimited cabs because they argue that outside of peak usage times like Christmas most drivers wouldn't be able to make a decent living if there were more cabs on the street (at least not without raising rates even higher). There's probably some truth to that, but I don't view not having enough cabs to meet demand at key times as acceptable either. Also, lots of drivers don't want to be working at the times when cabs are needed most. I think solutions could be reached that would meet the needs (if not wants) of both sides though, if they'd just think outside the box a little. Maybe things like cab licenses that can only be used Friday/Saturday nights, or temporary licenses for Stampede, Christmas, etc. could help meet the demand.

Vulcan · 05-07-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't understand any of the argument against allowing an unlimited number of cabs. The industry should be regulated for safety and such but what makes cabs so special that they aren't allowed to compete in the free market.

We have unlimited cabs in Grande Prairie and no fixed rates and it seems to work out fine. It is a smaller market, but some of the companies have started offering flat fare rides anywhere in the city.

We don't limit the number of ice cream stands in the city or anything else for that matter so why taxis?

It once was open to buy taxi licences in Calgary and it worked well. The ones wanting to keep the number of licences at a fixed amount are the brokers and the few independent owners because it's an asset money maker and it gives them control of the drivers. The drivers were better off before the licences became controlled.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 12:24 PM

Is there anyone here that can not make the same claim for limiting competition. I could make a decent living if there was a limit on the number of fast food employees in the city. And don't get me started on lube shops. Those things are so common now I think that the government needs to limit them to one shop per 25000 people so that they can make some money.

Ashartus · 05-07-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Is there anyone here that can not make the same claim for limiting competition. I could make a decent living if there was a limit on the number of fast food employees in the city. And don't get me started on lube shops. Those things are so common now I think that the government needs to limit them to one shop per 25000 people so that they can make some money.

The difference is that the cab rates are also regulated. If they deregulated rates then it would also make sense to open the industry right up. That's also an option that should at least be considered - there'd probably be some initial hiccups and people upset to find that their driver is charging a higher rate than another one, but it might work.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 01:04 PM

It just seems so odd to regulate certain industries.I understand for things like electricity delivery because it would be ridiculous to have ten companies running lines through the neighborhood to you house.
The government has also made the argument that certain sin type products need heavy regulation to protect us from ourselves and while I may not agree I can at least follow the logic. For cab fares though I can't understand how it was sold as a good idea in the first place. Why is it such a bad thing for different cabs to charge different rates. Restaurants do it all the time and no one complains. Heck, did you know that Superstore charges more money for pop if you walk through the parking lot and buy it at the liquor store?

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't understand any of the argument against allowing an unlimited number of cabs. The industry should be regulated for safety and such but what makes cabs so special that they aren't allowed to compete in the free market.

We have unlimited cabs in Grande Prairie and no fixed rates and it seems to work out fine. It is a smaller market, but some of the companies have started offering flat fare rides anywhere in the city.

We don't limit the number of ice cream stands in the city or anything else for that matter so why taxis?

While we may not limit ice cream stands in particular we certainly do limit the number, and location, of all sorts of businesses. Zoning laws, permits and a variety of other regulations impact pretty much every industry and in effect can limit the number of locations of those businesses.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

While we may not limit ice cream stands in particular we certainly do limit the number, and location, of all sorts of businesses. Zoning laws, permits and a variety of other regulations impact pretty much every industry and in effect can limit the number of locations of those businesses.

Zoning restricts what can go where but I didn't think there was much in the way of absolute numbers. As far as I know it restaurants comply with zoning you could build 25 of them in a row.
I think they limit some sin type items like bars and liquor stores, but is there anything else that the city caps or puts in density limits on?

TorqueDog · 05-07-2012, 01:39 PM

How does it work in the UK? If my Top Gear watching serves me correctly, the system is quite different with 'minicabs'.

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Zoning restricts what can go where but I didn't think there was much in the way of absolute numbers. As far as I know it restaurants comply with zoning you could build 25 of them in a row.
I think they limit some sin type items like bars and liquor stores, but is there anything else that the city caps or puts in density limits on?

You need more than a space zoned for commercial use and a stove to open a restaurant, namely a permit. It's not as regulated as alcohol or taxis but it's still not a free for all.

bizaro86 · 05-07-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

You need more than a space zoned for commercial use and a stove to open a restaurant, namely a permit. It's not as regulated as alcohol or taxis but it's still not a free for all.

That seems more analogous to parking restrictions than to a restriction on the total number of taxis.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

You need more than a space zoned for commercial use and a stove to open a restaurant, namely a permit. It's not as regulated as alcohol or taxis but it's still not a free for all.

Absolutely, just like how a taxi driver needs a taxi license to operate in the city. The question is why the city decided to limit the number of taxi licenses when there is no limit to the number of other licenses in the city.

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizaro86

That seems more analogous to parking restrictions than to a restriction on the total number of taxis.

How? You don't need to apply for, and be approved for, a parking spot.

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Absolutely, just like how a taxi driver needs a taxi license to operate in the city. The question is why the city decided to limit the number of taxi licenses when there is no limit to the number of other licenses in the city.

I'd say it's largely due to lobbying from those who currently hold licenses and would like to continue to have a hold on the market.

My point is that the city has the ability to regulate other industries as well.

GP_Matt · 05-07-2012, 02:15 PM

The city has the ability to limit most things but they don't. Can you imagine the outcry if the city announced that from now on they weren't going to allow any more food service licenses to help reduce the number of restaurants. Going forward any new restaurants had to instead buy the license from an existing restaurant.

Now that I think about it, the federal government does the same thing for cheese so maybe the population would put up with a restaurant limit.

valo403 · 05-07-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

The city has the ability to limit most things but they don't. Can you imagine the outcry if the city announced that from now on they weren't going to allow any more food service licenses to help reduce the number of restaurants. Going forward any new restaurants had to instead buy the license from an existing restaurant.

Now that I think about it, the federal government does the same thing for cheese so maybe the population would put up with a restaurant limit.

That's pretty much how liquor licenses work in a number of cities, and really to be a profitable restaurant a liquor license is a must.