Nova Scotia student suspended over "Life is wasted without Jesus" t-shirt

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...t.html?cmp=rss

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

But the shirt doesn't say that others lives are a waste. It's a generic statment, keep it as that. It could be that the shirt is talking about his life, not others. It's far more a shirt celebrating Jesus than tearing anything else down. "Life is wasted without Jesus", To me that is a pro-Jesus shirt and not an anti-anything shirt

Its suggesting that without Jesus in your life, your life is inferior to those who do have Jesus in their lives, as they feel you are wasting your life without Jesus. Its not generic at all really. A generic statement would be "I love God" or some such crap, but this one is specific through its wording.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by troutman

I would suspend students for wearing Kesler jerseys to school.

Those special ed kids can't run around naked. Cut them some slack.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

"Life is wasted without Jesus."

I don't have Jesus, I'm a Jew. What does that say about my life?

Ok, I see your point. I still think the shirt is a pro-Jesus one and not an anti-other religion shirt. But I see how the controversy could happen.

Now if it had said "my life is wasted without Jesus" that would have been ok? I still think people get too worked up about this (going both ways).

Edit: I don't see anything wrong with the shirt. It makes a comment, more than an attack on other religions. People should have the freedom to express those beliefs how they want.
Now if the suspension is because he disobeyed the school's orders, them that is different. If that's the case then it makes a little more sense but if the shirt is still the only reason then that is being too touchy, in my opinion

[Cecil Terwilliger]

So if I'm following correctly a shirt that says "there is no god" is not ok but a shirt that says "I'm a gnostic atheist" would be fine?

Pro-atheism shirts would be fine but anti religion shirts would not. So someone can wear a shirt that says "the bible is the word of god" but I can't wear a shirt that says "the bible is a fairytale". Seems a bit weird if you ask me.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I'm not surprised you support the suspension.

Talk about going way overboard.....

I don't really care about the damn t-shirt. This is an attack on christianity....I can see it and I don't even belong to any organized religion.

What I speak of is the current atmosphere where anything that represents western moral tradition is now attacked and deemed offensive, and anything that subverts it is to be supported and applauded by the media and government institutions.

Why aren't you surprised I support the suspension? I'd love to know.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

and it appears what I said should have happen, did in fact happen, and thus he was suspended as a result.

I'm ok with that.


As for people randomly preaching religion via whatever medium they wish it annoys me. Not that I'm anti-religion, just that they make me look crazy for following one.

I rarely get into the religious debates on here, if I do it's usually just me being sarcastic and watch people go ballistic when they don't realize I'm joking (note I usually put a disclaimer in white print at the end of those posts).

Believe what you want to believe, be proud of it, and be willing to discuss it openly and honestly, but if you're preaching you're generally preaching to people you who don't want to hear it or to the choir, either way you're annoying the people you're preaching too.

[jammies]

If you agree with the message, it's a principled stand. If you disagree, it's disrespect for authority. So I'm going to have to go with "disrespect for authority".

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

Ok, I see your point. I still think the shirt is a pro-Jesus one and not an anti-other religion shirt. But I see how the controversy could happen.

Now if it had said "my life is wasted without Jesus" that would have been ok? I still think people get too worked up about this (going both ways).

Yes, a "my life is wasted without Jesus" shirt would have been ok. The superintendent even uses that exact phrase in the article linked in the OP.

School officials didn't suspend Swinimer because he was wearing a shirt that offended some: It was because he refused to change the shirt when the principal of Forest Heights Community School ordered him to.

South Shore Regional School Board (SSRB) superintendent Nancy Pynch-Worthylake says that if the shirt read "My life is wasted without Jesus," it would be a much different situation.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I don't have Jesus, I'm a Jew. What does that say about my life?

Well, you are on this message board a lot of the time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

But the shirt doesn't say that others lives are a waste. It's a generic statment, keep it as that. It could be that the shirt is talking about his life, not others. It's far more a shirt celebrating Jesus than tearing anything else down. "Life is wasted without Jesus", To me that is a pro-Jesus shirt and not an anti-anything shirt

I'm going to assume based upon your avatar that you are 'pro-jesus', in which case it's much easier for you to see this shirt as merely supporting that position. However, to an outsider it is equally as easy to see it as denigrating anyone who chooses to live their life without jesus.

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...t.html?cmp=rss

Then I definitely support the action of the principal. The rule is clear. It is clear the the student intentionally violated it.

From the CBC article, this quote is telling:

Swinimer says he never intended to attack anyone else's beliefs. He says he will continue to wear the shirt and is prepared to be suspended the rest of the year.

That is like saying, "No offense, but..." and then insulting someone. Just because you say your intention is not to insult someone it does not mean that you are not insulting.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I'm not surprised you support the suspension.

Talk about going way overboard.....

I don't really care about the damn t-shirt. This is an attack on christianity....I can see it and I don't even belong to any organized religion.

What I speak of is the current atmosphere where anything that represents western moral tradition is now attacked and deemed offensive, and anything that subverts it is to be supported and applauded by the media and government institutions.

Care to address the fact that there are decades of cases based upon the 'western moral tradition' attempting to crush the ability of anyone outside that tradition from voicing their beliefs? Or do those just cease to exist in your little world?

[Senator Clay Davis]

This kid isn't going very far in life if he can't obey the rules. If he was warned not to wear the shirt and did anyways, then being overly religious isn't his problem, its a lack of common sense. Of course being 19 and still in high school already suggests his life is going nowhere.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So if I'm following correctly a shirt that says "there is no god" is not ok but a shirt that says "I'm a gnostic atheist" would be fine?

Pro-atheism shirts would be fine but anti religion shirts would not. So someone can wear a shirt that says "the bible is the word of god" but I can't wear a shirt that says "the bible is a fairytale". Seems a bit weird if you ask me.

just to directly answer your question without giving my own opinion:

one shirt is referencing one's own book and one's own god, the other is referencing another's book and making fun of it.

if a shirt that says "the Bible is the word of God" is allowed, so too should a shirt that says "the Koran is the word of Allah" or "Science is the word of the Universe" (I don't think atheists t really have a direct comparison due to the not believing in a religion thing, but someone might come up with a better example)

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This kid isn't going very far in life if he can't obey the rules. If he was warned not to wear the shirt and did anyways, then being overly religious isn't his problem, its a lack of common sense. Of course being 19 and still in high school already suggests his life is going nowhere.

Ah, the ol' chicken or the egg riddle . . .

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm going to assume based upon your avatar that you are 'pro-jesus', in which case it's much easier for you to see this shirt as merely supporting that position. However, to an outsider it is equally as easy to see it as denigrating anyone who chooses to live their life without jesus.

Yep, fair assumption and I would agree that is easier for me to see that look on the shirt. Now if someone, like Cecil had mentioned, had worn a shirt saying "there is no God" I wouldn't be offended. I might not like it, but in this country we have the right to express ourselves.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Why aren't you surprised I support the suspension? I'd love to know.

Because I think of you as a liberal ninny.....correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you one of the christian bashers around here?

I don't know why anyone would support a week-long suspension over a t-shirt slogan.

I couldn't care less about what someone's t-shirt says. It could say "I hate rednecks" and I wouldn't bat an eyelash....cuz I'm all grown up now.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

just to directly answer your question without giving my own opinion:

one shirt is referencing one's own book and one's own god, the other is referencing another's book and making fun of it.

if a shirt that says "the Bible is the word of God" is allowed, so too should a shirt that says "the Koran is the word of Allah" or "Science is the word of the Universe" (I don't think atheists t really have a direct comparison due to the not believing in a religion thing, but someone might come up with a better example)

While I appreciate the response, it was a rhetorical quesiton. It is basically the difference between pro-whatever and anti-whatever. Positive messages are allowed but negative ones aren't.

But to address your last sentence, the part in brackets, I agree it is tough because atheism is a lack of belief in religion so it is harder to have a pro-atheism statement without inherently being anti-religion.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Because I think of you as a liberal ninny.....correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you one of the christian bashers around here?

I don't know why anyone would support a week-long suspension over a t-shirt slogan.

I couldn't care less about what someone's t-shirt says. It could say "I hate rednecks" and I wouldn't bat an eyelash....cuz I'm all grown up now.

Being suspended for the shirt is stupid....being suspended for not following the rules, about which he was warned repeatedly, is 100% justifiable. Hate the stupid rule, fine. Don't hate the suspension, because he was suspended for breaking a rule.