General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[tjinaz]

Like cars etc where the sales tax percentage difference could mean a couple hundred dollars but for the .5 or .8% difference I don't see people avoiding Glendale. Plus they are putting in a whole Tanger Outlet center in Westgate where a lot of the free parking used to be so I believe that will generate a bunch of sales tax as well. I bought a new car earlier this month in Scottsdale as the tax rate there is one of the lowest

Plus the cities that border Glendale on the west side are already very close to the 3% anyway. Tolleson, Buckeye, Youngtown and Avondale.

Not scientific but a huge New car dealer in the Phoenix area - Earnhardt (17 dealerships) has none in Glendale.

Weird... as Glendale is currently one of the lower cities at 2.2%. They haven't increased yet and Earnhart has been in metro PHX forever and has dealerships in Avondale which currently has a higher tax rate than Glendale at 2.5%. Seems to indicate that the Municipal tax is not a driving factor as to where dealerships are located.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Coyotes fans have other things to think about when it comes to this team. I remember many times when that council chamber was 100+ deep of folks in Coyotes gear.

wow, more than 100 folks - that is awesome......

correct if my math is wrong, but if the sales tax difference was a full 1.0% then you would have to be spending $50,000 to make a $500 difference - so unless you are an NBA'r who would spend that on bling - the only other items that would cost that much are vehicles and homes and i'd expect you could negotiate that difference away.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

wow, more than 100 folks - that is awesome......

correct if my math is wrong, but if the sales tax difference was a full 1.0% then you would have to be spending $50,000 to make a $500 difference - so unless you are an NBA'r who would spend that on bling - the only other items that would cost that much are vehicles and homes and i'd expect you could negotiate that difference away.

Difference is 1.5% ... on a $30,000 car is $450. As to negotiating difference almost a certaintity that the dealer in the 1.5% locale will be able to match or beat the price in the 3% Glendale.... no reason not to.

Just a basic life philosophy of mine .... raising taxes almost never generates the revenues intended.

They could add a surtax to the tickets to a coyotes game..... You can obviously see that it would result in even less tickets being sold and a loss of revenue.

I will try to make this my last post on thread before I go down another rabbit hole.

[troutman]

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...a4bcf887a.html

As for the Coyotes, Lieberman said, “The deal was his (Jamison); $14.5 million average for the next 21 years if he can get enough investors to buy the team. He has himself said on television he hasn’t done that this past year. Multiply $14.5 million by 21 years, you see that he is asking for $305 million.

“With the raising of sales by 7/10 of 1 percent, it’s all in the name of raising the money for the potential owners of the Coyotes. If we don’t give him the $17 million this year and $20 million next year and $20 million the year after and $20 million in 2015 to complete the five years, he goes away.

“He, in my mind, is using what he gets from Glendale as a guarantee to his investors that he will be able to make the deal work.

“Remember, we are on the third owner of the Coyotes in seven years.

“Here’s the problem: A car dealer in Glendale will have a $270 increase in the cost of a $30,000 car because of the sales tax increase.

“We are starting $35 million behind this year, and with the increase in sales tax, we will only be able to increase the General Fund by $5 million to $11 million.

“I asked where the extra $5 million was coming from we need to pay the NHL this year. That’s coming straight out of the General Fund. That also would buy a swimming pool and a whole lot more.”

[troutman]

http://translate.google.com/translat...ce.php&act=url

The success of the Phoenix Coyotes on-ice will not affect the negotiations surrounding the sale of the team, said Wednesday the deputy commissioner of the National League.

As for the price asked by the League, which owns the team, he should not climb along with the rise of the team sets the table, assured Bill Daly. NHL asks $ 170 million for the Coyotes and that will not change, he said.

In recent days, the potential buyer Greg Jamison, former president of the San Jose Sharks, said he found new investors willing to embark with him on the adventure of buying to keep the team in Glendale . Sources said he would undertake that it remains at least 10 years in Arizona.

But by his own admission, he has not managed to raise 100% funding. On this issue, the authorities of the NHL seem reluctant to put pressure. "The NHL has not set a deadline for Greg Jamison meet the necessary funds," said Mr. Daly.

Lisa Halverstadt ‏ @LisaHalverstadt#Glendale
spokeswoman: Three council members visited with the #Coyotes at http://Jobing.com Arena today.

Lisa Halverstadt ‏ @LisaHalverstadt
Daly: Playoff run won’t up the asking price for the #Coyotes. That’s long been reported to be about $170M.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...a4bcf887a.html

As for the Coyotes, Lieberman said, “The deal was his (Jamison); $14.5 million average for the next 21 years if he can get enough investors to buy the team. He has himself said on television he hasn’t done that this past year. Multiply $14.5 million by 21 years, you see that he is asking for $305 million.

“With the raising of sales by 7/10 of 1 percent, it’s all in the name of raising the money for the potential owners of the Coyotes. If we don’t give him the $17 million this year and $20 million next year and $20 million the year after and $20 million in 2015 to complete the five years, he goes away.

“He, in my mind, is using what he gets from Glendale as a guarantee to his investors that he will be able to make the deal work.

“Remember, we are on the third owner of the Coyotes in seven years.

“Here’s the problem: A car dealer in Glendale will have a $270 increase in the cost of a $30,000 car because of the sales tax increase.

“We are starting $35 million behind this year, and with the increase in sales tax, we will only be able to increase the General Fund by $5 million to $11 million.

“I asked where the extra $5 million was coming from we need to pay the NHL this year. That’s coming straight out of the General Fund. That also would buy a swimming pool and a whole lot more.”

I like the way this councilman goes into where the money is coming from, where it's going too, the total amount involved and lose of other services the CoG is faced with.

[ricardodw]

Have the Millionaire hockey players in Phoenix made any positive impacts in Glendale?

Legit question in that has Doan and his buddies built any swimming pools or hospital wings like the Sedins did for Vancouver. Something like that would offset Glendale losing the extra $5M this year from their parks and rec budget.

If the players give 10% of their salaries to charities in Glendale that would be 5M a year that will be gone if the team moves. Maybe that is happening behind the scenes and needs to be brought out.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Have the Millionaire hockey players in Phoenix made any positive impacts in Glendale?

Legit question in that has Doan and his buddies built any swimming pools or hospital wings like the Sedins did for Vancouver. Something like that would offset Glendale losing the extra $5M this year from their parks and rec budget.

That's not a legitimate question. Some money returned to the community does not offset the substantial loss the team is causing by being there.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

That's not a legitimate question. Some money returned to the community does not offset the substantial loss the team is causing by being there.

I suppose you have an economic impact study that supports this?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by valo403

I suppose you have an economic impact study that supports this?

I'm rendering the .pdf I just made... Brb uploading now

[pylon]

The fact the NHL is doing this to a city is freaking disgusting. These people are going through financial hardship, for a stupid hockey team that 3 people care about. It is like some sort of racketeering. Seriously, the NHL should quietly make an agreement with a big buyer up north willing to pay crack money, and split the proceeds of the sale 50/50 with Glendale. They screwed up, we screwed up. We each walk away with $130 million for our troubles. Put the money in trust to run your building, and we can put an NHL team in a city that actually shows up in the Regular season. The NHL sells the Franchise for 260 million bumping up everyones values.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by pylon

The fact the NHL is doing this to a city is freaking disgusting. These people are going through financial hardship, for a stupid hockey team that 3 people care about. It is like some sort of racketeering. Seriously, the NHL should quietly make an agreement with a big buyer up north willing to pay crack money, and split the proceeds of the sale 50/50 with Glendale. They screwed up, we screwed up. We each walk away with $130 million for our troubles. Put the money in trust to run your building, and we can put an NHL team in a city that actually shows up in the Regular season. The NHL sells the Franchise for 260 million bumping up everyones values.

What exactly is the NHL forcing anyone to do? The city of Glendale is under no obligation to do anything they do not think is in their best interests. The idea that the NHL should turn into a charity simply because the decisions that Glendale has made may not have been the greatest is laughable.

[troutman]

Phoenix Coyotes sale could be finalized next week


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...-could-be.html

Jamison has brought together the investment money necessary to purchase the Coyotes from the NHL and keep the team in Glendale, sources familiar with the sale of the franchise said. Previous attempts to buy the team have struggled to secure financing and monetary commitments for a franchise that loses $25 million each season.

If Jamison has his investment ducks in a row, it could result in the NHL officially announcing sometime next week that the Coyotes are off the market with terms of sale being finalized with Jamison, who still is a minority owner of the Sharks.

The NHL has owned the team since buying them out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2009 for $140 million.

The Glendale City Council could vote on an arena lease deal and financial payments to Jamison’s group as early as its May 8 meeting, according to officials familiar with the matter. The city, however, has nothing on its council agenda yet, according to Glendale spokeswoman Julie Frisoni

Coyotes’ boosters still are optimistic that they have the four votes on the seven-member city council to get a deal approved.

[nik-]

So $170 million plus $250 million over the next 10 years to cover losses?

Amazing purchase!

[troutman]

I don't see how GWI can look at a $17 Million annual "subsidy" (Scrugg's words) as anything other than a violation of the gift clause.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't see how GWI can look at a $17 Million annual "subsidy" (Scrugg's words) as anything other than a violation of the gift clause.

Of course GWI will see that, the real question is whether a court will agree. GWI make s a lot of noise, but will they be there when the chips are down?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't see how GWI can look at a $17 Million annual "subsidy" (Scrugg's words) as anything other than a violation of the gift clause.

They had no objection to the $25 million payments the previous two years...

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

They had no objection to the $25 million payments the previous two years...

They have not been getting documents, and I think they have been biding their time for the next deal.

I think the Coyotes will be in Phoenix next season (at the very least).

http://goldwaterinstitute.org/blog/g...ns-raise-taxes

In other cities, like Oakland, taxpayers don’t pay high dollars for someone else to manage their arena. Instead, professional management groups compete for that right. Arena management can be a profitable business, with groups maximizing concert and other entertainment events and keeping the revenues from concessions and ticket sales. Meanwhile, cities benefit because they don’t have to pay the operating costs. In some arena contracts, like the Sprint Center in Kansas City, the city also gets a cut of the profits. Last year, arena management added $1.8 million to Kansas City’s budget.

A few million dollars in the door would be a well-needed substitute for $20 million going out of Glendale for its arena. We have yet to see city officials open bidding for management. Given the heavy competition for it in other cities, Glendale should consider that option before asking taxpayers to cough up more sales taxes and for another year of hockey.

[Jordan!]

I see it going down like this:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...park-deal.html

Also, they didn't have to sue at all last go-round - they just issued a letter to bond buyers.. there won't be bonds issued as financing will be private.

They've got nothing

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I see it going down like this:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...park-deal.html

Also, they didn't have to sue at all last go-round - they just issued a letter to bond buyers.. there won't be bonds issued as financing will be private.

They've got nothing

Agreed, GWI is a lot of hot air and bluster, as is expected from a fringe political group, but when it comes down to actually litigating anything they disappear.