General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Daradon]

Man, if I lived in Glendale I think I would just move. It's not getting better there anytime soon.

What will they do with the arena when the team finally does move?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by valo403

How does it make it worse? They're paying to manage that arena regardless of whether or not the tenant is the Coyotes or 6 hobos gathered around a flaming barrel.

And what other attractions do you suggest would fill 41+ dates?

The 300+ shows/ attractions or so that found their way into the MTS centre in Winnipeg when there was no NHL team.

My Goodness how important is NHL hockey to the economy of US cities?? How do the hundreds cities with arenas and without NHL franchices survive?



Q:What kind does any business plan support building a multi-million dollar arena based on 41 out of 365 days the building being used.

A: One doomed to failure.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Don't forget the Moose either.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The 300+ shows/ attractions or so that found their way into the MTS centre in Winnipeg when there was no NHL team.

My Goodness how important is NHL hockey to the economy of US cities?? How do the hundreds cities with arenas and without NHL franchices survive?



Q:What kind does any business plan support building a multi-million dollar arena based on 41 out of 365 days the building being used.

A: One doomed to failure.

Very different situations. Most of the shows that have gone to the MTS Centre have been of the 3000-5000 variety, because there isn't another venue in Winnipeg that seats more than the 1635 of the Burton Cummings Theatre.

If an act is going to play Winnipeg, they almost have to play MTS, whereas in Calgary they could be @ the Dome, or the Corral, or even the Jube. In Metro Phoenix, there are even more choices for promoters.

In 2008 those non sports events @ MTS sold 385,427 tickets. Pretty impressive, and less than half of what the Flames attract yearly.

In order to even try and make money building and then running an arena, you have to have both a good travelling show/concert business, and at least one anchor tenant that helps you to keep the lights on.

[Stealth22]

Minor detail here...just because the City of Glendale is willing to waste another $25M, doesn't mean that the Coyotes are staying. The NHL still has to sell the team, and okay, maybe Glendale can pay for the losses, but how much longer does the NHL want to own this team?

And unless I am misunderstanding the article, the amount is not $25M, but $50M. $25M for this season, which Glendale supposedly thought they'd never have to actually pay, and another $25M for next season. Hell, with all the money they are wasting, why don't they just buy the team for $150M and be done with it? Haven't they already pledged/paid (including this/next season) close to $75M or $100M already?

I would not want to be a tax payer in Arizona right now.

[GGG]

Didnt somewhere tbey say it would cost about 10 million to operate the arena each year. So the question becomes is it worth 15 million per year for the chance of someone taking the team off your hands and keeping it there plus whatever tax revenue you get from the residents.

I dont think its a good bet but then they might be pot committed at this point.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GGG

Didnt somewhere tbey say it would cost about 10 million to operate the arena each year. So the question becomes is it worth 15 million per year for the chance of someone taking the team off your hands and keeping it there plus whatever tax revenue you get from the residents.

I dont think its a good bet but then they might be pot committed at this point.

Yeah, they must feel pot committed or they would cut their losses but the mayor also feels that the NHL has led them down the garden path with their assurance that there is a buyer coming on Monday. Too bad they didn't accept Balsillie's offer of $50M as their creditor payout.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Julio

Very different situations. Most of the shows that have gone to the MTS Centre have been of the 3000-5000 variety, because there isn't another venue in Winnipeg that seats more than the 1635 of the Burton Cummings Theatre.

If an act is going to play Winnipeg, they almost have to play MTS, whereas in Calgary they could be @ the Dome, or the Corral, or even the Jube. In Metro Phoenix, there are even more choices for promoters.

In 2008 those non sports events @ MTS sold 385,427 tickets. Pretty impressive, and less than half of what the Flames attract yearly.

In order to even try and make money building and then running an arena, you have to have both a good travelling show/concert business, and at least one anchor tenant that helps you to keep the lights on.

Phoenix has over 4 times the population of Calgary...

That is the whole concept about having to get a NHL team there in the first place.

Why are Calgary and Edmonton considering building new arenas ??? It certainly can't be based on having 41 out of 365 dates sold.

There has to be a demand for 100s of 8-10,000 plus venue or it will be a white elephant that eventually the tax payer gets to under-write.

[CedarMeter]

If anyone has anytime to burn go to ticketmaster.ca and punch in Phoenix Coyotes..You can choose your own seats for the playoffs games..Front row seats against the glass go for over 300 dolloars while seats on the red line 10 rows up go for 168.00..Does anyone else find this backwards?..

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

If anyone has anytime to burn go to ticketmaster.ca and punch in Phoenix Coyotes..You can choose your own seats for the playoffs games..Front row seats against the glass go for over 300 dolloars while seats on the red line 10 rows up go for 168.00..Does anyone else find this backwards?..

Why would you find that backwards? It's the way that seats are priced in the vast majority of NHL arenas.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

i wonder what the walk up scalper pricing is like. i have 2 free flights with American.

[Cowboy89]

I'm hoping for a Coyotes Stanley Cup this year. It would just be too ironic that the former Jets win the Cup during a year in which the only reason they aren't the actual Jets is because Glendale coughed up $25 Million last year. Also wouldn't it be an interesting storyline if Quebec had the Nordiques leave to win a Stanley Cup in Denver in 1996 and then the new Nords come in the year after winning a Stanley Cup in Phoenix? Also it would have Bettman with crow all over his face for his 'Southern Strategy' after being forced to move the defending Stanley Cup Champions!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why would you find that backwards? It's the way that seats are priced in the vast majority of NHL arenas.

really .... what do you base this on?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

really .... what do you base this on?

I base it on the pricing at a number of arenas in which i have attended games

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

If anyone has anytime to burn go to ticketmaster.ca and punch in Phoenix Coyotes..You can choose your own seats for the playoffs games..Front row seats against the glass go for over 300 dolloars while seats on the red line 10 rows up go for 168.00..Does anyone else find this backwards?..

You want to get on TV??? maybe they include nachos and seat service for the glass seats?

You are there for the experience not to see the hockey game itself.

I am interpretting your comment to be that the best seats in the house Red line 10 rows up are not the most expensive.


The fact that any of these tickets are avaialable for less than $1000 is another story.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I'm hoping for a Coyotes Stanley Cup this year. It would just be too ironic that the former Jets win the Cup during a year in which the only reason they aren't the actual Jets is because Glendale coughed up $25 Million last year. Also wouldn't it be an interesting storyline if Quebec had the Nordiques leave to win a Stanley Cup in Denver in 1996 and then the new Nords come in the year after winning a Stanley Cup in Phoenix? Also it would have Bettman with crow all over his face for his 'Southern Strategy' after being forced to move the defending Stanley Cup Champions!

Ironically, a long playoff run would significantly reduce the team's losses, making Glendale's payout far more palatable for the city. It could, also ironically, bring the books to a point where both (a) an owner such as Jamison could find it worthwhile to buy the team and (b) more fans come out to the rink.

Also, since it bears repeating, the 'Southern Strategy' is not Bettman's. He came in three years after the BOG decided to go south, and was brought in to implement their wishes.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Phoenix has over 4 times the population of Calgary...

That is the whole concept about having to get a NHL team there in the first place.

Why are Calgary and Edmonton considering building new arenas ??? It certainly can't be based on having 41 out of 365 dates sold.

There has to be a demand for 100s of 8-10,000 plus venue or it will be a white elephant that eventually the tax payer gets to under-write.

FWIW, Calgary and Edmonton have three core tenants:
NHL: 45 dates (plus playoffs, heh)
WHL: 36 dates (plus playoffs. 2 dates for the Hitmen this season, and minimum 8, maximum 12 for Oil Kings)
NLL: 8 dates (plus playoffs: 1-3 for Calgary, 0 for Edmonton)

The two Alberta rinks have 90-100 dates guaranteed every year before you book a single other event. In Calgary, you can add known recurring events like the Macs Tourney final and Stampede.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Ironically, a long playoff run would significantly reduce the team's losses, making Glendale's payout far more palatable for the city. It could, also ironically, bring the books to a point where both (a) an owner such as Jamison could find it worthwhile to buy the team and (b) more fans come out to the rink.

Also, since it bears repeating, the 'Southern Strategy' is not Bettman's. He came in three years after the BOG decided to go south, and was brought in to implement their wishes.

Not to mention that a Cup win could solidify more of a fan base for the coming years. Everybody loves a champ.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by valo403

I base it on the pricing at a number of arenas in which i have attended games

what arenas have you gone to that you get buy $168 tickets in on the red line 10 rows up... for any playoff game?

Even $300 for ice level seats.

You have to have some concept that these seats are not available at any Canadian cities except for season ticket holders with a huge waiting list of other season ticket holder waiting for the privlege to buy these seats and a list of people without season ticket behin them.


Are things in Detroit that shaky?

[Resolute 14]

Not that what happens in Canadian markets has much relevance to American, but here's Ottawa's pricing for round 1:

http://senators.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=49391

Ten rows up on the red line is $190.

Ice level is $300.

And that, very likely, is the walk up price. STHes would have gotten it cheaper.