April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

My 31% considers that (16% Quebec + 15% lowest bracket level, though it can actually be more than 31% because the Federal brackets change at 38,000 if I remember). And if you want to have your own provinicial police force here in AB like there is in Quebec, and your own pension plan like there is in Quebec, that money has to come from somewhere....like tax increases?

Yes, and if we increase taxes to the absurd amounts that Quebec has, and chase businesses away, those equalization payments will come from....Denver?

Quebec is rewarded for it's business detroying economic climate by happening to have neighbors with thriving economies. If we all were like Quebec, the revenue generating capacities of every province would be substantially lower and thus social programs would have to be substantially cut across Canada.

[kn]

Redford's response to the QR77 report:
http://www.votepc.ca/admin/contentx/...d=2525&r=10187

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Just going from my memory, Alberta is sitting on top of an (albeit sandy) ocean of petroleum, and Quebec is not.

Alberta is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has been developed by an investment friendly business climate.

Quebec is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has never been explored because it's impossible to ever make a buck.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

And I'm not defending Quebec at all. They have made awful economic decisions since the PQ was in power.

[kn]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Just going from my memory, Alberta is sitting on top of an (albeit sandy) ocean of petroleum, and Quebec is not.

I'm not sure what you're point is. Alberta should not negotiate the spending formula to limit how much it transfers?

[kn]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

I don't think it's too much of an issue with a Harper government. It may be more contentious if Mulcair is the next PM.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Yes, and if we increase taxes to the absurd amounts that Quebec has, and chase businesses away, those equalization payments will come from....Denver?

Quebec is rewarded for it's business detroying economic climate by happening to have neighbors with thriving economies. If we all were like Quebec, the revenue generating capacities of every province would be substantially lower and thus social programs would have to be substantially cut across Canada.

This is a bit simplistic, but I trust the point will be made nonetheless:

Alberta corporate tax rate: 10% (+ federal corporate tax rate of 28.4% = 38.4%) [Source: http://www.finance.alberta.ca/public...tes/hist1.html]

Quebec corporate tax rate: 11.9% (+ federal corporate tax rate of 28.4% = 40.3%) [Source: http://www.investquebec.com/en/index.aspx?page=332]

The "business detroying economic climate" rhetoric is just wishful thinking from Alberta boosters.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

And I'm not defending Quebec at all. They have made awful economic decisions since the PQ was in power.

The oil is certainly not 'Canada's as a whole'. The natural resources are CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY owned by the provinces.

Time to brush up on some constitutional law.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Alberta is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has been developed by an investment friendly business climate and because of subsidies and tax breaks granted largely by the federal Liberals.

Quebec is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has never been explored because it's impossible to ever make a buck, and because they have nothing like the oil sands.

I added to your statement to make it a little more accurate.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

I disagree. I think the oil belong to all mankind, in fact, to all living things in the galaxies near and far away.

[kn]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

The oil is certainly not 'Canada's as a whole'. The natural resources are CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY owned by the provinces.

Time to brush up on some constitutional law.

Right. And with equalization payments being part of the constitution, does it behoove Alberta to negotiate the funding formula on behalf of the welfare of Candians or Albertans?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

And I'm not defending Quebec at all. They have made awful economic decisions since the PQ was in power.

We pay royalties to the Alberta Government. Oil producers in Saskatchewan pay royalties to the Saskatchewan government. Gas producers in BC pay royalties to the BC government. The Canadian Federal Government is in no way involved, until you start shipping those products across provincial borders, and in that situation it's a permitting issue, not a royalty issue.

I think people need to remember just because someone posts something online, doesn't make it true.

[Senator Clay Davis]

But in a way the oil is Canada's as a whole. Without the oil in this province there would be no outgoing transfer payment issues, but another province would have the oil, and we'd be the ones begging for transfer payments. If Alberta's eastern border was 50km west or southern border a couple hundread kms south, this province would likely be as poor or poorer than Quebec.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by senator clay davis

but in a way the oil is canada's as a whole.

100% wrong

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Alberta is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has been developed by an investment friendly business climate.

Quebec is sitting on top of mineral wealth that has never been explored because it's impossible to ever make a buck.

In addition to an investment friendly climate, Alberta invested HEAVILY in science to improve the economic viability of extracting and refining mineral wealth.

Quebec has done really well with Hydro...its a sore point that THAT kind of energy is treated differently than Alberta's hydrocarbon based resources

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Slava

I added to your statement to make it a little more accurate.

Just how "easy" do you think it is to make a buck on the oilsands? Alberta has resources, but they are amongst the worst petroleum resources in the world. There are a lot of oilsands in different places around the world - Venezuela, Madagascar, Utah. None of them are economic. Venezuela's is larger, better grade, in a country with a longer history of oil production. It isn't profitable because it isn't in Alberta.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

My 31% considers that (16% Quebec + 15% lowest bracket level, though it can actually be more than 31% because the Federal brackets change at 38,000 if I remember). And if you want to have your own provinicial police force here in AB like there is in Quebec, and your own pension plan like there is in Quebec, that money has to come from somewhere....like tax increases?

Presumably the money for provincial police force could come from the money the gov't of AB pays the RCMP to do our provincial policing.

Also, it seems likely the money for a provincial pension plan would come from the current CPP contributions of Albertans.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think people need to remember that point: This oil is not Alberta's, it's Canada's as a whole. We shouldn't have a probblem sharing with everyone else.

And I'm not defending Quebec at all. They have made awful economic decisions since the PQ was in power.

No...the mineral resources belong to the province...when they are exported the Feds become involved.

[First Lady]

Just FYI

Noon hour leaders debate will be live streamed here

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ers-forum.html

[troutman]

“How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them? Every part of the earth is sacred to my people.” Chief Seattle quote