General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well the question is what will cost more money, floating the Coyotes or mothballing the arena. You have to consider other impacts as well, would the Coyotes leaving be a major blow to the retail development around the arena? Is there potential to fill the 41+ dates that would be vacated? Are the costs that are being covered costs the city would carry next year regardless of the Coyotes being there?

There's a lot more to be considered than just the dollars being pledged.

I could be incorrect but I believe I saw on TSN last year a lot of the outrage is the city council is made up of a lot of the same people who committed to building this thing to begin with. They made the blunder and now are trying to save their butts by throwing money at it.

Even if this thing was built by a totally different group of politicians this current city council is still throwing away good money after bad. If the arena can't sustain and pay for itself it shouldn't be there.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

I could be incorrect but I believe I saw on TSN last year a lot of the outrage is the city council is made up of a lot of the same people who committed to building this thing to begin with. They made the blunder and now are trying to save their butts by throwing money at it.

Even if this thing was built by a totally different group of politicians this current city council is still throwing away good money after bad. If the arena can't sustain and pay for itself it shouldn't be there.

Well it is there, so they have to deal with it. It would be great if there was a magic wand that could wipe away any mistakes, but the reality is that the city will paying for that arena for a long time regardless of whether or not the Coyotes are playing in it or not. They don't just get to throw up their hands and pretend that the building, and its associated costs, don't exist anymore. Unless of course the city is planning to declare bankruptcy.

Again, the question is one of finding the most prudent path going forward, be that by covering operating costs, signing over certain income streams, or mothballing the place.

[Resolute 14]

Teabaggers are getting involved now? The crazy scale just got cranked up to 11!

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Teabaggers are getting involved now? The crazy scale just got cranked up to 11!

10 people showed up to a Denny's with Lieberman, and there were a grand total of THREE protestors at a council meeting today.

[Northendzone]

I hope the are protesting for an overall increase in tea bagging......

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

10 people showed up to a Denny's with Lieberman, and there were a grand total of THREE protestors at a council meeting today.

Nuts... well, I guess the crazy only got cranked up to 10.5.

Seeing tweets that both Lieberman and Scruggs will not support a $20 million management fee to whoever takes over the team/rink. Scruggs says her max is $11 million. Wonder where she pulled that number from?

[troutman]

Coyotes sale could come soon, five things to watch in the making of the deal


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...soon-five.html

[Jordan!]

GWI won't have a hand in this, as there won't be bond money.. They may attempt to challenge after the deal is done but the only money, by the sounds of it is going in the form of paying the team for managing the arena.

[troutman]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...ve.html?page=3

The biggest potential legal challenge for a Coyotes deal will likely be how the city crafts an arena management fee. Right now, Glendale pays the NHL $25 million annually to run city-owned Jobing.com Arena.

Everyone and their Canadian brother know that it doesn’t cost $25 million to run the arena, and the money is really to help cover the Coyotes’ losses.

Goldwater hasn’t challenged those two $25 million fees but could go after a Jamison deal if the deal raises the group’s gift clause ire.

Look for Glendale and the NHL to try to craft an arena management fee deal that helps get a deal done but avoids the courtroom.


I have been asked what I think will happen - I have no idea.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...ve.html?page=3

The biggest potential legal challenge for a Coyotes deal will likely be how the city crafts an arena management fee. Right now, Glendale pays the NHL $25 million annually to run city-owned Jobing.com Arena.

Everyone and their Canadian brother know that it doesn’t cost $25 million to run the arena, and the money is really to help cover the Coyotes’ losses.

Goldwater hasn’t challenged those two $25 million fees but could go after a Jamison deal if the deal raises the group’s gift clause ire.

Look for Glendale and the NHL to try to craft an arena management fee deal that helps get a deal done but avoids the courtroom.


I have been asked what I think will happen - I have no idea.

I would expect the NHL, Jamison and Glendale will have crafted a pretty well supported argument as to why whatever fee they agree upon is reasonable before they ever get to the point of having it challenged. At that point it will really be a question of whether or not GWI has the ability to tear any support apart, or craft novel arguments as to why the fee shouldn't be allowed. Based on GWI's track record I don't like their chances, it seems that when it comes to actually ligating an issue, as opposed to political posturing, their skill set disappears. Unless they're just rope-a-doping all of us.

[Stay Golden]

If a tornado or any other natural disaster flattened all of Glendale except the arena. Bettman would still refuse to move the PHX team.
How many seasons has Bettman been in control of PHX now? Its ridiculous. Has any other sport encountered this where the league is in control of the team season after season? Honestly i don't know that answer just throwing it out there.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

If a tornado or any other natural disaster flattened all of Glendale except the arena. Bettman would still refuse to move the PHX team.
How many seasons has Bettman been in control of PHX now? Its ridiculous. Has any other sport encountered this where the league is in control of the team season after season? Honestly i don't know that answer just throwing it out there.

1) Bettman isn't refusing to do anything, the NHL, an entity controlled by a Board of Governors and made up of 30 franchises has made the decision to own and operate the team in Phoenix for the past 2 seasons.

2) Yes, the NBA just sold the New Orleans Hornets after multiple years of ownership.

[Resolute 14]

Also, several leagues have taken over teams in recent years for various reasons - Notably MLB with the Texas Rangers and Los Angeles Dodgers. The Dodgers are currently in their second season of MLB control, though a sale is currently wending its way through the courts now.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

If a tornado or any other natural disaster flattened all of Glendale except the arena. Bettman would still refuse to move the PHX team.
How many seasons has Bettman been in control of PHX now? Its ridiculous. Has any other sport encountered this where the league is in control of the team season after season? Honestly i don't know that answer just throwing it out there.

MLB owned the Expos, and even moved them to Washington and continued to own them. Period of five years, I believe.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

1) Bettman isn't refusing to do anything, the NHL, an entity controlled by a Board of Governors and made up of 30 franchises has made the decision to own and operate the team in Phoenix for the past 2 seasons.

2) Yes, the NBA just sold the New Orleans Hornets after multiple years of ownership.

I think this undestates the importance of Bettman in the running of the NHL.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think this undestates the importance of Bettman in the running of the NHL.

Actually I think it states it perfectly.

He is an employee of the NHL. He is not a monarch. His job depends on his performance meeting the expectations of his employers, the BoG and by extension the rest of the owners. If the owners didn't want the NHL owning a team in phoenix they would not own a team in Phoenix. If Bettman persisted despite the owners wishes he would not be employed by the NHL.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually I think it states it perfectly.

He is an employee of the NHL. He is not a monarch. His job depends on his performance meeting the expectations of his employers, the BoG and by extension the rest of the owners. If the owners didn't want the NHL owning a team in phoenix they would not own a team in Phoenix. If Bettman persisted despite the owners wishes he would not be employed by the NHL.

Do you happen to know if Bettman can be "fired" by simple majority vote or does it require a super-majority of 2/3 or 3/4?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Do you happen to know if Bettman can be "fired" by simple majority vote or does it require a super-majority of 2/3 or 3/4?

No idea, obviously the terms of his contract aren't public nor are a lot of the terms controlling internal NHL procedures. He was granted a 5 year extension recently, which was approved by the BoG (again not sure if that's simple majority, super-majority or unanimous), so they apparently approve of his actions to date.

I think he's made some suspect choices at times, but the vast majority of the criticism lobbed at him is entirely baseless and demonstrates a complete disconnect with the reality of his role.

[ricardodw]

Is Glendale/Phoenix that much more of an impoverished area than Winnipeg and/or Hamilton?

Winnipeg and Hamilton had a near-NHL arenas that was fully used paying its bills without an NHL team for years.

If the Jets were to leave Winnipeg next year (not going to happen) there would be no panic that the arena was going to sit empty.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually I think it states it perfectly.

He is an employee of the NHL. He is not a monarch. His job depends on his performance meeting the expectations of his employers, the BoG and by extension the rest of the owners. If the owners didn't want the NHL owning a team in phoenix they would not own a team in Phoenix. If Bettman persisted despite the owners wishes he would not be employed by the NHL.

The NHL owners and its board are a disperate group of families, individuals and ownership groups of pension funds etc, as such they are unlikely to have much of a single mind for anything, unless things go utterly in the crapper. They will, to a large degree like most boards, do what Bettmen wants right up until they can him.