April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[photon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Uh when uh different uh uh community leaders such as a Sikh leader or a a a Muslim leader speaks they really speak to their own people in many ways. As a Caucasian I believe that I can speak to all the community.


I must be missing the part where he says muslims or sikhs only speak to their own communities at the exclusion of the others?

That's what he means when he talks about what he can do that's different than the others.

When someone says he has an advantage because he can speak to all the community, that means that the others don't (can't/won't/whatever).

He says the other leaders speak to their own people, and his advantage as a white man is that he can speak to all the community (who only speak to their own people).

I'm not sure in what other way it can be read.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

It doesn't matter Slava! You can't say... well, our numbers are right and theirs are wrong!

There's no proof, period. Either number could be right, but we don't know.

There's no proof the CCS cancellation is still worth 2 billion. There's no proof the liberals can raise a billion dollars of corporate taxes without hurting the economy. But it doesn't matter. Either you take the assumptions of every party, or you throw them all out. But your partisan claim that ONLY the wildrose has made a bad assumption is just politics.

Well that's just ignoring the obvious though. There is a set amount of school fees collected; you can get and use an accurate number for items like that. Same goes for CCS; we know how much money has been spent (and can estimate how much would be spent by the time the project is cancelled if it is).

You can deny that, or say there is no proof, but that is just intellectually dishonest. While we might not be accurate right to the penny, we have information that suggests fairly accurate figures and the Wildrose has chosen to ignore these and claim a balanced budget.

That's why we're arguing in circles; you have no desire to actually look at the platform with numbers that are accurate because the budget won't balance. Instead you only want to talk about how bad the other parties are and how they're budgets are wrong. I say let the Wildrose budget stand for itself, and if it can actually balance given the more accurate information than so be it.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Danielle Smith, Climate Realist:

""We have always said the science isn't settled and we need to continue to monitor the debate."

fyp

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dion

PC legacy a political football

Klein years in focus as ex-premier's wife takes Wildrose membership

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/17...tical-football

Speaking of Ralph Klein's legacy...

[The closure of Calgary General Hospital] leaves Calgary as the only large city in Canada without a downtown emergency department.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_General_Hospital

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Yes, you must be. I'll try to break it down for you:

When Sikh and Muslim leaders speak, they really speak to their own people.

But I am different because when I, as a white person, speak, I speak to the whole community.

This is what he explicitly said. The only "interpretation" that I have made is the fact that he is distinguishing himself from Mulsim and Sikh leaders but there is absolutely no question that that is what he is doing in that quote. If you have a different interpretation, I would be fascinated to hear it.

Sure, my interpretation is:

When Sikh and Muslim leaders speak, they have an advantage within their own communities.

When I speak as a caucasion, I feel I am better at bridging all communities.


There absolutely is no implications that he is claiming Sikh or Muslims would only represent their own communities to the absolute exclusion of others, as you initially stated.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Yes, you must be. I'll try to break it down for you:

When Sikh and Muslim leaders speak, they really speak to their own people.

But I am different because when I, as a white person, speak, I speak to the whole community.

Therefore, when Sikh and Muslim leaders speak, they don't speak to the whole community.

This is what he explicitly said. The only "interpretation" that I have made is the fact that he is distinguishing himself from Mulsim and Sikh leaders but there is absolutely no question that that is what he is doing in that quote. If you have a different interpretation, I would be fascinated to hear it.

What question was he answering anyway?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Sure, my interpretation is:

When Sikh and Muslim leaders speak, they have an advantage within their own communities.

When I speak as a caucasion, I feel I am better at bridging all communities.


There absolutely is no implications that he is claiming Sikh or Muslims would only represent their own communities to the absolute exclusion of others, as you initially stated.

Right, so as a white man, he is better at speaking to the whole community than a Sikh or a Muslim (based solely on the fact that he is white.) That is an outrageous thing to say.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

There absolutely is no implications that he is claiming Sikh or Muslims would only represent their own communities to the absolute exclusion of others, as you initially stated.

Yup, the "in some ways" part of the original quote makes that clear.

Still not a good quote.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by zuluking

What question was he answering anyway?

That's something that would be important to know, and I haven't seen that portion of the conversation anywhere.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by zuluking

What question was he answering anyway?

"Can you please say something to confirm people's fears that the WRP attracts homophobic and/or racial stereotyping candidates?"

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well that's just ignoring the obvious though. There is a set amount of school fees collected; you can get and use an accurate number for items like that. Same goes for tax projections; we know how much money would be lost through tax increases. We can see they have 14 uncosted spending promises.

You can deny that, or say there is no proof, but that is just intellectually dishonest. While we might not be accurate right to the penny, we have information that suggests fairly accurate figures and the Liberal Party has chosen to ignore these and claim a balanced budget.

That's why we're arguing in circles; you have no desire to actually look at the platform with numbers that are accurate because the budget won't balance. Instead you only want to talk about how bad the other parties are and how they're budgets are wrong. I say let the Liberal Party budget stand for itself, and if it can actually balance given the more accurate information than so be it.

No, I'm looking at all platforms throught the same lens. You want to debate the wildrose budget, and only the wildrose budget. But if you analyzed the liberal budget with the same intellectual honestly, they have just as many, if not more holes in it than the wildrose.

They have 14 totally un-costed spending promises. They have tax revenues pulled out of thin air. If you want to look at the platforms with accurate numbers, how come you only want to do that to one party?

Also, FYP.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Makarov

"Can you please say something to confirm people's fears that the WRP attracts homophobic and/or racial stereotyping candidates?"

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

How do you quantify 'prosperous'?

I don't think we have the best healthcare in Canada, education system in Canada, or infrastructure.

We might spend the most, but measurable outcomes aren't much better than most provinces. I don't think that's a badge we should wear proudly.

Not that I doubt your claims, but as a resident of Alberta, do you often spend large amounts of time in other Canadian provinces and have extensive use of their health care, infrastructure or education system?

Or is this just a case of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by SebC

Speaking of Ralph Klein's legacy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_General_Hospital

But Calgary now does have 24 hour urgent care downtown. The other hospitals are close enough for cases where the urgent care isn't enough.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Yup, the "in some ways" part of the original quote makes that clear.

Still not a good quote.

Ok, fair enough, "only" was not the correct word. He is suggesting that a white person, by virtue of their whiteness, is better able to speak to the whole community than a Muslim or Sikh.

Again, its an outrageous thing to say.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by redforever

No I am not, but I am telling you that if she hires a team that does not know that fact, or if the PC party has hired a team that does not know that fact, that it makes Redford look as bad as the team.

When you surround yourself with incompetence, you look incompetent in return.

What does that make people who surround themselves with people like Hunsperger?

[SebC]

Whilst I still think the PCs are on balance better than Wildrose, see if you you can guess which party these quotes come from: http://www.toryorwildrose.ca/

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'm just gonna leave this here.

I don't see how that could possibly be seen in a poor light.

Maybe cutting off all contact with the media is the best solution for the WRP if this is what is going out there, even after this weekends scandal.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by SebC

Whilst I still think the PCs are on balance better than Wildrose, see if you you can guess which party these quotes come from: http://www.toryorwildrose.ca/

I keep getting the same questions over and over, often the same question back to back.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by SebC

Whilst I still think the PCs are on balance better than Wildrose, see if you you can guess which party these quotes come from: http://www.toryorwildrose.ca/

Its a bit unfair though because some of the PC quotes are attributed to people like Morton who are now members of the WRP.

However, that useful link did provide another eloquent piece of wisdom from our friend Ron Leech:

“To affirm homosexuality is to distort the image of God, to insult the nature and being of God.”

Ron Leech, Wildrose Candidate Calgary-Greenway Calgary Herald, January 1, 2004