April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Not saying Danielle is going to use it, but its a tool out there.

Seriously? give it up.

If they did that I would start the recall petition.

Edit: Actually, hasn't someone already debunked the not withstanding clause even being applicable in that scenario?

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Seriously? give it up.

If they did that I would start the recall petition.

Edit: Actually, hasn't someone already debunked the not withstanding clause even being applicable in that scenario?

I don't think rational thinking will be very persuasive. Try a tin foil hat.

[Senator Clay Davis]

How can it not be applicable? And more wikipedia fun from me!

The federal Parliament or a provincial legislature may declare a law or part of a law to apply temporarily ("notwithstanding") countermanding sections of the Charter, thereby nullifying any judicial review by overriding the Charter protections for a limited period of time. This is done by including a section in the law clearly specifying which rights have been overridden. A simple majority vote in any of Canada's eleven jurisdictions may suspend the core rights of the Charter. The rights to be overridden, however, must be either a fundamental right (e.g., section 2 freedom of expression, religion, association, etc.), a legal right (e.g., liberty, search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, etc.), or a section 15 equality right. Other rights such as section 6 mobility rights, democratic rights, and language rights are inalienable.

If you think the Feds will override, will they really? With Mr. Harper in Ottawa? I'm hopefully they would, but have my doubts.

[photon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I don't think rational thinking will be very persuasive. Try a tin foil hat.

Everyone else's posts about sensitive and polarizing issues still have been within a reasonable range of respect for the other posters, your past few have not though.

Please if you have something positive and meaningful to contribute to the thread do so, otherwise leave this kind of thing out of it.

(That goes for any other similar posts of course)

[Jacks]

These arguments are getting fully irrational now. The odds of this happening are certainly higher than the odds of you getting hit by lightning tomorrow at 10:46am.

You should be more worried about Ted Morton when he becomes the next PC leader because Redford probably isn't going to be there next year.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Hey I'll say you wanna trash me, go right ahead. I'll be here! I like this board because while we certainly don't agree on much, I do think we all respect each other's opinions and express our agreement or disagreements with issues. Wouldn't come here otherwise.

And Ted Morton makes me uneasy too. No religion in politics damnit!

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by photon

Everyone else's posts about sensitive and polarizing issues still have been within a reasonable range of respect for the other posters, your past few have not though.

Please if you have something positive and meaningful to contribute to the thread do so, otherwise leave this kind of thing out of it.

(That goes for any other similar posts of course)

Accusing a pastor of a criminal offence is within a reasonable range of respect?

Otherwise, gotcha.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Any Wildrose supporters want to even touch the legit question/issue I raised not too long ago? I'm trying to move away from this cause obviously we're never going to agree, so lets agree to disagree shall we?

[old-fart]

Personally, I think those that still believe in church shouldn't be allowed to run for public office at any level.

Same as those that believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. There should be "logic" test that can be applied prior to allowing the crazies to run.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

How can it not be applicable? And more wikipedia fun from me!



If you think the Feds will override, will they really? With Mr. Harper in Ottawa? I'm hopefully they would, but have my doubts.

You mean the Harper majority government who's leader has already stated that he's not re-opening the gay marriage laws or abortion laws?

Now you're trying to create a global conservative conspiracy where Smith is going to re-open the gay rights abortion rights debate based on a Alberta use of the not-withstanding clause? And Harper will use it as some kind of constitutional litmus test?

And what, watch the Conservatives lose the next election in a freaking landslide when they lose all of their eastern votes?

The same federal conservative government that made changes to the gay marriage rules so that it was an improvement on the original rules that were laid out?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Personally, I think those that still believe in church shouldn't be allowed to run for public office at any level.

Same as those that believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. There should be "logic" test that can be applied prior to allowing the crazies to run.

The only logic that is required in my book is a commitment to human rights ahead of personal religious rights.

You can believe in anything you want as a politician (or as a new Canadian) but the rights of individuals to be treated equally and fairly comes before anything in the Bible/Koran/Torah/other.

[puffnstuff]

Maybe nobody saw it, because i didnt see an answer anywhere...but I had asked a question about Danielle Smith and her time as a trustee on the CBE. What has she said about that while on the election trail?
If as many have suggested a minority govt is coming, either PC or WR, have any of the leaders been asked about working in a minority situation?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Not trying to continue any "conspiracy theories", but has Stephen Harper followed through on every single campaign promise/pledge he made? Likely not. I agree it would be political suicide to even consider such a move, but then again you'd think saying something's going to cost $15billion when you know its gonna cost $25billion is also political suicide.

[CaptainCrunch]

You're comparing jet fighters to gay rights and abortion rights?

You can't be serious.

Harper hasn't enacted on a single one of his so called hidden agenda items.

Politically the theory that Alberta will put a consititutional change in front of Harper and he'll allow Alberta to opt out because Harper secretly hates gays for example is silly.

Why would he do that, is he bored of governing?

Even beyond that do you really think that some anti-gay anti-abortion group is going to really collect 500,000 signatures in 6 month to enact this kind of challenge, and then (with something that is a federal and not provincial juristiction) is going to pass a review by the Supreme Court of Canada?

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by SebC

I suspect the reason you see it that way is because of Canada's economic performance through the recession. I don't give them the credit for this that you do. We had a stable banking sector thanks to previous governments, and we were able to afford our stimulus spending thanks largely to Paul Martin. The budget that was implemented included stimulus spending because the opposition would have toppled the Conservatives had it not, and we were already in a worse position for stimulus spending because of the GST cut and spending increases pre-recession. As far as I'm concerned, we pulled through the recession very well in spite of the Conservatives, rather than because of them. (If they were leading Canada, it was in the direction that the Libs and the NDP were leading them.)

I don't think that Harper would have campaigned on the GST cut if he had known that he would be able to hold onto the office for as long as he has. I saw the GST cut as a one time action to reduce taxes that would be hard to undo. If he cut income taxes instead then successive parties would be able to creep them back up but that will be much harder to do with the more visible GST.
He did also mention that provinces had the option to increase their sales taxes by the same two percentage points turning the cut into a permanent transfer.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Personally, I think those that still believe in church shouldn't be allowed to run for public office at any level.

Same as those that believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. There should be "logic" test that can be applied prior to allowing the crazies to run.

With your logic, any person with religious belief shouldn't be judges, police, doctors or nurses too because they don't pass the logic test.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by darklord700

With your logic, any person with religious belief shouldn't be judges, police, doctors or nurses too because they don't pass the logic test.

Judges definetely not, gotta be impartial, and thinking of WWJD is not partiality. The rest are fine by me believing in religion and practicing their job...at least until we have conscience rights

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Judges definetely not, gotta be impartial, and thinking of WWJD is not partiality. The rest are fine by me believing in religion and practicing their job...at least until we have conscience rights

Why is open discrimination against someone for their religious beliefs seemingly alright with you?

I don't think they should restrict the membership for any reason; religion, race, sexual orientation, or otherwise. If you can do the job, do it.

[MarchHare]

Judges having religious beliefs is absolutely fine by me so long as their personal religious convictions don't affect their judgements or sense of impartiality.

That US judge who refused to take down a statue of the Ten Commandments in his courtroom? Totally unacceptable. A Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/Pastafarian judge who rules in accordance with our secular laws? No problem at all.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well I only said judges shouldn't, and thats for partiality reasons. The rest are cool. The only places I don't think religious people should be involved is the legislative and judicial processes, because those effect everyone from every orientation/race (gay, straight, black, white, asian). Otherwise, go wild with religion in jobs.