General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Vulcan]

=Resolute 14;3651978]Selling season tickets in Hamilton before he actually owned the team was not going through the front door. He made a stupid play and it cost him any and all goodwill he had with the league.

Kansas City, the other contender for the team was doing the same thing but did't get any flack for it.

A bankruptcy judge wouldn't let that interfere with their duty. Their job is to get the creditors the best return on the assets as they can within the confines of the law.

Of course, he would look for the best return and the best return for all parties, including the NHL, was Balsillie's offer.

[QUOTE]Balsille effed up, and burned his bridges. That's sad for him. He lost. Glendale lost. But depending on the sale price, the NHL will break even at worst, now, and retain the Hamilton market for a massive future expansion fee. Counting the fact that they beat back Balsillie's 'relocate without league approval' ploy, I think the league won this battle handily.[/QUOTE

That's yet to be seen (massive expansion fee) which will probably mostly go to the Leafs. I don't see losing a viable owner and a viable franchise location as a win when you consider the money pit and bad publicity that has followed the Coyotes franchise. If a deal was made there would have been no need to question the league's rules about relocation. One good thing after this fiasco is that cities should take a second look before investing in NHL arenas.

[kipperfan]

It probably wouldn't matter anyways (as the league will never accept him as an owner) but I have to wonder, considering RIM's recent downfall, if Bailsillie even has the means to purchase an NHL team anymore? I found a Financial Post article on Google from Summer 2011 that stated his net worth had fallen from $2.7 billion in 2009 to $1.8 billion in March 2011 to then $800 million in June of 2011. Couldn't find any more recent estimates, but one has to think, considering the trend and RIM's continued struggles, that his net worth has fallen even further.

Is he even worth as much as a Jim Treliving at this point? I'd say it's debatable.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Kansas City, the other contender for the team was doing the same thing but did't get any flack for it.

No, actually, it wasn't. Delbaggio was selling suites in his arena. He did not sell season tickets for a team he did not own, in a market that did not have a team.

Of course, he would look for the best return and the best return for all parties, including the NHL, was Balsillie's offer.

Except for the legal problems which Balsillie could not overcome. As I said, the court has to do the best it can within the confines of the law.

That's yet to be seen (massive expansion fee) which will probably mostly go to the Leafs. I don't see losing a viable owner and a viable franchise location as a win when you consider the money pit and bad publicity that has followed the Coyotes franchise. If a deal was made there would have been no need to question the league's rules about relocation. One good thing after this fiasco is that cities should take a second look before investing in NHL arenas.

Balsillie was not a viable owner, so no loss there. Nor have they lost a viable franchise location, as Hamilton remains open. The money pit has been funded by Glendale, and whatever the owners lost operating the team there for two years will more than likely be recouped on the sale. As far as bad publicity goes, didn't hinder the league's ability to show record attendance, interest and TV revenues.

And as an added bonus, we get to watch Winnipeg freak out when the first Glendale White Out happens.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

It probably wouldn't matter anyways (as the league will never accept him as an owner) but I have to wonder, considering RIM's recent downfall, if Bailsillie even has the means to purchase an NHL team anymore? I found a Financial Post article on Google from Summer 2011 that stated his net worth had fallen from $2.7 billion in 2009 to $1.8 billion in March 2011 to then $800 million in June of 2011. Couldn't find any more recent estimates, but one has to think, considering the trend and RIM's continued struggles, that his net worth has fallen even further.

Is he even worth as much as a Jim Treliving at this point? I'd say it's debatable.

Maybe he can't afford a team anymore but according to this, and I've read this somewhere else as well.

Turns out that Bettman, according to my source, has told Balsillie that if he behaves himself and doesn’t create any more spectacles or bad publicity for the league, he will eventually get a team.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...l-in-the-game/

[Resolute 14]

Yeah, I remember that story as well.

The irony is that the Coyotes were failing anyway. There was speculation before the bankruptcy scam that the team was in dire trouble. If he had been a little patient, he could well have convinced the league of relocation given a cheque with enough zeros attached.

The double irony is that even if he did manage to get back into the league's good books, he can't afford to buy and relocate a team to Southern Ontario anymore.

[Vulcan]

=Resolute 14;3652064]No, actually, it wasn't. Delbaggio was selling suites in his arena. He did not sell season tickets for a team he did not own, in a market that did not have a team.

Do you want to back that up? To me, I don't see the problem with showing you have a viable audience for your team. The fans buying the tickets knew it wasn't guaranteed they'd get a team.

Except for the legal problems which Balsillie could not overcome. As I said, the court has to do the best it can within the confines of the law.

There were no legal problems. The judge wanted them to make a deal.

Balsillie was not a viable owner, so no loss there. Nor have they lost a viable franchise location, as Hamilton remains open. The money pit has been funded by Glendale, and whatever the owners lost operating the team there for two years will more than likely be recouped on the sale. As far as bad publicity goes, didn't hinder the league's ability to show record attendance, interest and TV revenues.

And as an added bonus, we get to watch Winnipeg freak out when the first Glendale White Out happens.

As said in my previous post, Balsillie now appears to be a viable owner. The only thing that has changed is that Bettman realizes buyers with real money are hard to find.

[tjinaz]

Bob McCown: "Deadline for #Coyotes is april 15th,(...) NHL told PKP to Get Ready, (...) the arena announcement was welcomed(...)"

Bob McCown: "Don't be surprised if we see a duplication in Quebec City of what happened last year in Winnipeg." #Nordiques

Bob McCown à Radio X : à 15h41 http://rms.radiox.com/player/radiox3/default.aspx?spc=CHOI "The possibility of the #Coyotes moving to Quebec City is very real". #Nordiques

I went to his twitter account and didn't find any of that. I googled it and the only reference is this forum. Where did you see it?

http://twitter.com/#!/fadoobobcat

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The way I see it, is that Balsillie tried going through the front door twice and when that didn't work out, he decided to play hardball.

Whatever the attitude of the NHL BOGs, it made sense to deal with Balsillie and move the team to Hamilton, even the Phoenix judge ( who you would think would want to keep the team in Phoenix) told them to make a deal and Bettman should have been practical and done it. What it ended up being is a pissing match where most everybody lost.

You can't just put a team in Hamilton. It's in both Toronto and Buffalo's territories, that's a ton of money that would need to be paid out to those teams to gain the territorial rights.

Not to mention, putting a team in Hamilton pretty much ends any possibility of a second team in Toronto. NHL owners aren't going to give up that cash cow. It could be a $500 million expansion fee. That's over $15 million in each team's pocket.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

You can't just put a team in Hamilton. It's in both Toronto and Buffalo's territories, that's a ton of money that would need to be paid out to those teams to gain the territorial rights.

Not to mention, putting a team in Hamilton pretty much ends any possibility of a second team in Toronto. NHL owners aren't going to give up that cash cow. It could be a $500 million expansion fee. That's over $15 million in each team's pocket.

Nah, it's just barely in Toronto's territory although Buffalo wouldn't be happy. Balsillie did offer to pay a transfer fee.

That cash cow possibility has been sitting there for years and I'll be surprised if it happens in my lifetime. The NHL has also been waiting for the huge TV contract since the first expansion. In other words I think it's pie in the sky and if it happens the Leafs would demand most of the fee.

As the saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

I went to his twitter account and didn't find any of that. I googled it and the only reference is this forum. Where did you see it?

http://twitter.com/#!/fadoobobcat

I think someone was tweeting what McCown was saying on a radio show.

Bob McCown à Radio X : à 15h41 http://rms.radiox.com/player/radiox3/default.aspx?spc=CHOI

"Les Bombes De Bob McCown"

Bob McCown à accordé une entrevue à Monsieur Gasse. Voici des informations pas banales. 1-Qui est sa source dans le dossier de la date butoir? Bill Daly 2-Pierre Karl Péladeau doit être prêt (Get ready) 3-Quelqu'un a soufflé à l'oreille de PKP qu'il était temps de faire des annonces (entente avec la Ville pour la construction de l'amphithéâtre) et que cette annonce était bienvenue et démontrait notre bonne volonté.

Bob McCown to give an interview to Mr. Gasse. Here is information not trivial. 1-Who is the source folder of the deadline? Bill Daly 2-Péladeau ready (Get ready) 3-Someone has blown in the ear of PKP it was time to make announcements (agreement with the City for the construction of the amphitheater) and that this announcement was welcome and showed our good will.

[Jordan!]

To provide contrasting reports.. which btw, McCown knows nothing about this..

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...hin-month.html

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

You can't just put a team in Hamilton. It's in both Toronto and Buffalo's territories, that's a ton of money that would need to be paid out to those teams to gain the territorial rights.

Not to mention, putting a team in Hamilton pretty much ends any possibility of a second team in Toronto. NHL owners aren't going to give up that cash cow. It could be a $500 million expansion fee. That's over $15 million in each team's pocket.

I was talking to a gentleman from London Ontario last week. The feeling around there is an NHL team would thrive if an arena was built around Woodstock (between London and Kitchener-Waterloo). This would be outside Toronto's and Buffalo's territories. At one time, Balsillie was looking at buying a big piece of real estate near Woodstock and the 401.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The way I see it, is that Balsillie tried going through the front door twice and when that didn't work out, he decided to play hardball.

Whatever the attitude of the NHL BOGs, it made sense to deal with Balsillie and move the team to Hamilton, even the Phoenix judge ( who you would think would want to keep the team in Phoenix) told them to make a deal and Bettman should have been practical and done it. What it ended up being is a pissing match where most everybody lost.

Actually you would think he would want to come to a decision that was to the most benefit of creditors and fit within the confines of the law. You know, being a judge and all.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually you would think he would want to come to a decision that was to the most benefit of creditors and fit within the confines of the law. You know, being a judge and all.

That's the best you've got? I guess I could have worded it better but in his recommendations, if all things being equal he may have favoured remaining in Phoenix. I guess you've never heard of home town decisions, or the champ or the status quo becoming the easy way of deciding. To his credit at that stage, he didn't do this, he recommended that the two parties enter negotiations which would have resulted in the team moving.

In the end, his judgment wasn't based on the most benefit of the creditors, it was based on the NHL's claimed rights. He even gave the NHL a second kick at the cat when their first bid didn't address a couple of the main creditors.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

That's the best you've got? I guess I could have worded it better but in his recommendations, if all things being equal he may have favoured remaining in Phoenix. I guess you've never heard of home town decisions, or the champ or the status quo becoming the easy way of deciding. To his credit at that stage, he didn't do this, he recommended that the two parties enter negotiations which would have resulted in the team moving.

In the end, his judgment wasn't based on the most benefit of the creditors, it was based on the NHL's claimed rights. He even gave the NHL a second kick at the cat when their first bid didn't address a couple of the main creditors.

By Federal Bankruptcy Court Judges? No, I have not.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

By Federal Bankruptcy Court Judges? No, I have not.

Ah, yes judges are always completely unbiased.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Ah, yes judges are always completely unbiased.

I love the way you deem it necessary to reach to such absurd levels over and over again on this topic. It's quite cute actually.

I mean are we seriously at the point where you're talking about Federal Judges making decisions based on personal interests due to the location of their court?

[troutman]

Glendale, NHL trying to close Phoenix Coyotes deal with Jamison group
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...e-phoenix.html

A number of sources familiar with the Coyotes situation said the NHL is poised to finalize a Jamison deal as soon as an arena lease with Glendale is approved.

A sale of the team to Jamison could be announced during the Stanley Cup Playoffs, which kick off Thursday for the Coyotes as they take on the Chicago Blackhawks in Glendale.

Two officials with knowledge of the arduous sales efforts say a purchase prices could be brought down to the $140 million to $150 million range.

Per Renaud Lavoie RDS just a few minutes ago:Jamison's offer is as low as 100M$.

Quebecor is rumored to be willing to pay $230 Million (including relocation fee).

Follow:

https://twitter.com/#!/LisaHalverstadt

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Do you want to back that up? To me, I don't see the problem with showing you have a viable audience for your team. The fans buying the tickets knew it wasn't guaranteed they'd get a team.

Certainly: http://www.thespec.com/news/article/...ning-for-preds

Note that Delbaggio's focus was more on landing an expansion team than buying the Preds at that point, especially since Balsillie was ofering $40 million more than he was willing to go.

And I realize you don't see a problem with how Balsillie handled because you don't care about pissing all over the fans of the existing market. The NHL does. And the moment Balsillie pulled that stunt, the NHL turfed him. Worked out very well in the end too.

There were no legal problems. The judge wanted them to make a deal.

The judge wanted them to deal because he could not legally force the NHL to take him in as an owner with free portability to move the franchise. Balsillie's claim was rejected with prejudice because a deal could not be made. The judge had no legal right to do what Balsillie wanted.

As said in my previous post, Balsillie now appears to be a viable owner. The only thing that has changed is that Bettman realizes buyers with real money are hard to find.

You are reading into a comment what you want to read, not what was actually said. That second- or third-hand report was that if Balsillie wanted to get back into the league's good books, he had to behave. You've yet to show any evidence that he has gotten back into the good books. Moreover, the massive tumble his fortune has taken should tell you that he is no longer a viable owner. Certainly not at the cost it would take to move a team into Hamilton or build a new rink in K-W.

[Tsawwassen]

No timeline for Phoenix, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/bettman-says-no-timeline-for-phoenix-solution/article2399222/