[GDT] Boston Red Sox (0-3) at Toronto Blue Jays (2-1) April 9th-11th

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

He didn't.



No one said they did. I like Santos and think he will be just fine, but "if" arguments to shift the blame are lousy. Saying, "well if the Jays scored more runs then ..." after he came in and stunk the joint up doesn't change the fact that the Jays had the lead before he came in and were losing when he came out.

It's not an argument to shift the blame, I've admitted he deserves a good amount of blame in the Jays losing tonight. He does not deserve it all, he did not blow the game.

I don't see how the "If's" are lousy. The Jays offense struggled again. If Santos had pitched a better 9th, the Jays win. If the Jays offense had been better, the Jays win.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

There are a lot of statistical dickheads out there, I do not want to become one of them. This is a Calgary Flames message board, clearly with a lot of people who have interest in the BlueJays whether it be very strong or casual fans. I'm not going to try and pounce on everything and anything, and try to give off that elitist vibe.

Then you're not off to a great start to the season.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The Red Sox tie the game up off a double, JP unable to block a ball in the dirt and then a Sac Fly. The "Santos blew it" post was made.

Santos did blow it - he was wild. I'm unsure if the Pedroia hit was a miss, but most of the remaining pitches in the inning were wild - in the zone or otherwise. The passed ball wasn't "in the dirt" that JP "failed to block" - it was a 97mph fastball that wasn't within reach. That's a wild pitch (regardless of the official scorer's decision - which from what I can tell - is based only on bounce/no bounce). Santos had a couple good sliders (for balls), everything else was wild.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The save stat and blown saves stat are useless for so many reasons. The fact that blowing a 1 run lead or a 3 run lead are not the same thing, much like blowing a 1 run lead is not the same. The stat is in my mind, the dumbest in baseball for even more reasons.

The save stat has limited usefulness, not none.
If you want to reference a "modern" stat then let us know what Santos' WPA was in comparison.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Then you're not off to a great start to the season.



Santos did blow it - he was wild. I'm unsure if the Pedroia hit was a miss, but most of the remaining pitches in the inning were wild - in the zone or otherwise. The passed ball wasn't "in the dirt" that JP "failed to block" - it was a 97mph fastball that wasn't within reach. That's a wild pitch (regardless of the official scorer's decision - which from what I can tell - is based only on bounce/no bounce). Santos had a couple good sliders (for balls), everything else was wild.



The save stat has limited usefulness, not none.
If you want to reference a "modern" stat then let us know what Santos' WPA was in comparison.

His WPA on the game must have been pretty ugly, especially with the 2 additional runs added on. Trustworthy FanGraphs has that up and I'm almost afraid to look.

I was pretty angry about the Jays losing tonight, I came off as a dick in some of my posts. My apologies CP

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

His WPA on the game must have been pretty ugly, especially with the 2 additional runs added on. Trustworthy FanGraphs has that up and I'm almost afraid to look.

Don't see it on Fangraphs yet, but I remember this situation being around -75%

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I was pretty angry about the Jays losing tonight, I came off as a dick in some of my posts. My apologies CP

[zukes]

I posted this in the other thread (not sure I like the separate threds).... it's only 4 games. Santos is a good pitcher, he wll come around and be a top 5 closer in the AL.

The fans booing were idiots, like Leafs fans...right booo the guy who just got here so can go and say the Jays are a terrible team to play for...who needs confidence?

Let's not be Leafs fans...the Jays are .500 after less than 2.5% of the season....there are still going to be games that matter, be happy!

[dustyanddaflames]

I think the booing was mostly because of the hype that surrounds a home opener, and the fact that there was a full house - the boos are always going to sound louder. I bet that if Santos blows a save in May against Seattle, you'll hardly hear anything :/

Truthfully, I don't mind the chattering from the crowd - although negative, the fact that you can hear the crowd on a TV broadcast is a nice change. I wouldn't have minded Santos coming in and getting roughed up a little, but the fact that he walked batters that came around and scored is unexceptable at any time in the season. I understand it is going to happen, but three walks and a wild pitch is too much. Sure you blow the lead - lock it down and get it to the bottom half still tied. Granted the chopper through the right side of the infield was bad luck, and Bautista nails that runner at home 8/10 times - but it should have never gotten to that point regardless.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by zukes

I posted this in the other thread (not sure I like the separate threds).... it's only 4 games. Santos is a good pitcher, he wll come around and be a top 5 closer in the AL.

The fans booing were idiots, like Leafs fans...right booo the guy who just got here so can go and say the Jays are a terrible team to play for...who needs confidence?

Let's not be Leafs fans...the Jays are .500 after less than 2.5% of the season....there are still going to be games that matter, be happy!

Meh, I've got no problem with the fans booing in that instance. In fact, I was one of them (note: I was drunk).

The boisterous crowd was preparing to go home happy with a 2-1 win (not THAT happy, the game was rather dull) and the all-too-familiar sight of a blown save was a big downer. I wouldn't chalk it up to a bandwagon fanbase at all.

And frankly, closers need to have thick skin to begin with. Sure it's harsh too boo him so early in the season, but I don't think you'll find it's different in any other market. Cleveland boo'd their closer last Thursday, that's just life as an MLB closer.

[troutman]

Santos said he should have been booed.

[flames_1987]

Overly-sensational title? You bet your right nut it is. Because apparently that’s the game we’re playing today, as whoever provided the title for whatever #### dribbled out of Richard Griffin’s mouth and into the pages of this morning’s Toronto Star.
“Blue Jays home opener loss an ominous sign,” we’re told, as Griffin queues up to make a play for the title of this city’s Media King of Stoking the Flames of ####ing Stupidity. “Troubling,” he calls last night’s performance. “A disturbing development.” The Jays now “must be concerned about their closer and his psyche.”
Right, because it isn’t blindingly goddamn obvious that anybody ready to make wild pronouncements a month into a 162 game season– let alone after four ####ing games– is either genuinely stupid, or genuine keen to employ the classic trolling techniques of Damien Cox, baiting readers and bloggers into angrily driving traffic towards whatever preposterous thing they’re pretending to believe.

“There are signs of trouble for the inexperienced closer, who has only been pitching professionally since 2009 and had logged only logged 28.2 innings before making the majors,” he writes, adding to an unspoken, asinine theme throughout the piece: you should have listened to ol’ Griff when he was dispensing easily-torched traditionalist horse#### about the club needing to get a proven closer this winter. (Also, we’re now supposed to be unduly scared that the arm of a converted position player may turn to dust at any moment, apparently.)
“Every aspect of Monday’s game should have been in the home team’s favour,” he later adds, conveniently forgetting to notice that THEY’D EACH PLAYED THREE GAMES AT THAT POINT. “The Jays’ three games in Cleveland resulted in two wins, while the Sox were being battered by the Tigers in Motown. The Sox bullpen was the one that was a mess.”
I mean… I understand Griffin has a job to do and maybe can’t tell all his readers that what’s happening day-to-day doesn’t really mean a whole lot for a month, but for #### sakes. What do you even say to that?
No, Santos hasn’t pitched well. He’s looked like he’s overthrowing, and to say he hasn’t had great command is an understatement. Last night he left a ball up that Pedroia pounced on, he missed so badly on the pitch to Gonzalez you see in the screen grab above that it’s hard to fault JP Arencibia for not being able to keep it in front of him. But he could have. Just as he could have managed to get his glove on Jose Bautista’s throw to the plate when the go-ahead run scored, and Bautista himself could have made a better throw.
Ahh, but there is to be only one villain in the tiny minds of the tools who’ve elevated the save– and now the blown save– into something intelligent fans are going to have to keep on bashing their heads against… at least until Santos settles down and pitches the way anybody who’s not an idiot knows he is fully capable of. It’s more of the same, they cry, as if there’s some sort of curse on the Jays bullpen. April wins count too, they’ll sputter, and the Jays are pissing away games letting their best reliever pitch!
We know, losses are bad and last night’s was a punch in the gut. But… it’s baseball. The best teams lose upwards of 70 times, and Santos will be fine. Just like Frank Francisco was fine. Simmer the #### down, please.

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/0...unkJaysFans%29

[dustyanddaflames]

I like DJF - great website with pretty unbiased opinions... I agree that there is no reason for real concern here, Santos does look like he is trying to overthrow the ball (slider at the shoe tops is a great example of this).

What I don't agree with is the Arencibia/Bautista comment. That slider in the dirt is next to impossible to keep in front of a catcher. The way the ball kicks off the dirt is a crapshoot, add to that, Arencibia had to slide to his right just to get a wrist on it - there was no way that ball stays at the plate.

Could Bautista made a better throw? Sure, like I said 8/10 times he probably nails that runner at home plate. I think after watching the replay, the last hop before Bautista got the ball to his glove really threw his timing off. Was a weird bounce.

Regardless - Santos didn't get the job done last night. Does that make him a terrible closer? No. Does that mean Farrel should try Cordero? No. Santos will be fine, the Jays will be fine, and the Griffin will/should get over this. It is a pretty small sample over 162 game season. But last night is on Santos - no question.

[CofR]

CF Ellsbury, 2B Pedroia, 1B AGon, DH Ortiz, 3B Youk, RF Sweeney, LF Ross, C Salty, SS Punto. Bard.

Sox lineup for today.

[flames_1987]

Congrats to producer Doug Walton & the #Jays TV crew. Monday's home opener was the highest rated #Bluejays game ever on Sportsnet (1.33 mil)

[dustyanddaflames]

Sergio Santos will not be with the Blue Jays from Thursday until Saturday due to the birth of his child.

From rotoworld.com

[flames_1987]

Brett Cecil allowed four runs on 11 hits with seven strikeouts last night for Double-A New Hampshire. #BlueJay

[CofR]

Apparently Aviles twisted his ankle on the swinging strike 3 from Alvarez last night, not serious, but that's the reason that Punto is starting.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

From rotoworld.com

Let's pray to Tebow that we can win a few comfortably without him. I don't think I can stomach a media inspired closer controversy this early in the season.

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Brett Cecil allowed four runs on 11 hits with seven strikeouts last night for Double-A New Hampshire. #BlueJay

Cecil has turned into complete cannon fodder. The guy is going to have no place in the organization in a few short months with all the recent draft picks primed to pass him on the organizational depth chart.

Also, just have to add, I totally love the idea of doing threads for each series. It seems to really inspire fan interaction during games without completely clogging up the general Blue Jays thread. Well done to whoever suggested the idea!

[GirlySports]

JP has some fans

nsfw due to size of picture

NSFW!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

JP has some fans

nsfw due to size of picture

NSFW!

I'd steal that base head first

[The Big Chill]

Great start for Drabek. Looked calm and comfortable.

[saskflames69]

Kyle Drabek's looking solid.