April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Yes, this is obviously the case. As we can see, the USA clearly avoided a large recession by using the most massive direct government stimulation of the economy in western history. Now they have a debt load they will be paying off for a generation but at least the economy is roaring. /greentext

Sorry, confused by the greentext, but are you saying that the US Stimulus package didn't work? From what I've read and seen, pretty much every economist said it did what it was suppose to do, including preventing the US Economy from nose diving into a full on depression. With some economist saying that it should have been even larger to have the real impact that was intended.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Only mildly related, but I love this picture of Danielle Smith in the Globe&Mail today:

Yee ha! This here is cowboy country! Of course, this is only true so long as we completely ignore the fact that Alberta is the most urbanized province in Canada (81% of the population living in urban areas) and the Edmonton-Calgary corridor is one of the most urbanized regions in Canada.) But hey, pandering to the masses with stereotypes is a lot easier than dealing with the real issues faced by the vast majority of Albertans who live in urban areas (affordable housing, mass transportation, etc.), no?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Yee ha! This here is cowboy country! Of course, this is only true so long as we completely ignore the fact that Alberta is the most urbanized province in Canada (81% of the population living in urban areas) and the Edmonton-Calgary corridor is one of the most urbanized regions in Canada.) But hey, pandering to the masses with stereotypes is a lot easier than dealing with the real issues faced by the vast majority of Albertans who live in urban areas (affordable housing, mass transportation, etc.), no?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Yee ha! This here is cowboy country! Of course, this is only true so long as we completely ignore the fact that Alberta is the most urbanized province in Canada (81% of the population living in urban areas) and the Edmonton-Calgary corridor is one of the most urbanized regions in Canada.) But hey, pandering to the masses with stereotypes is a lot easier than dealing with the real issues faced by the vast majority of Albertans who live in urban areas (affordable housing, mass transportation, etc.), no?

... this is the most irrelevant possible response I can imagine to a photo of Danielle Smith (or anyone, for that matter) riding a horse.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

... this is the most irrelevant possible response I can imagine to a photo of Danielle Smith (or anyone, for that matter) riding a horse.

What would a relevant response to a photo of Danielle Smith riding a horse be?

Anyway, I admit that I am a petty person to let this sort of thing bother me. However, I still think that these sorts of press photos show who the Wildrose Alliance is targetting as their demographic, and it isn't me. Once again, I don't support the party forming government in Edmonton. It just gets a little old after, you know, 35 years (i.e., my entire life living in Calgary.) I can't believe I'm even defending/considering voting for the PCs this election. Good grief.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but if you call yourself a centrist and yet don't support either the Wildrose or the Tories, then I venture you're definition of 'Centrist' puts you 23.5 percentage points to the left of the the median Albertan voter according to the recent polls. If you're centrist by Albertan standards then you're likely in the right wing ranks of the PC party tent. That's likely the crux of this election and why the Wildrose stand a chance at winning a majority (Ie the middle of the road Tory is actually left of center in Alberta terms).

I don't think that I'm left of centre at all. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal, and it does mystify me that there is no sound party in that realm (where I think most Albertans are, actually). I do laugh that I identify myself as a centrist and you bring up the Wildrose though. Might as well bring up the NDP while you're at it!

Honestly, I just want to see some discussion about things like what we do after oil, actual plans to deliver healthcare, a gameplan to invigorate and make progress in our education system and a thought out path to deal with the looming shortage of workers. Do that, and with a responsible budget, and I'm interested. Instead we have willy-nilly spending, tax credits, band-aid solutions for decades old problems and the courting of special interest groups. Its really too bad.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think that I'm left of centre at all. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal, and it does mystify me that there is no sound party in that realm (where I think most Albertans are, actually). I do laugh that I identify myself as a centrist and you bring up the Wildrose though. Might as well bring up the NDP while you're at it!

Honestly, I just want to see some discussion about things like what we do after oil, actual plans to deliver healthcare, a gameplan to invigorate and make progress in our education system and a thought out path to deal with the looming shortage of workers. Do that, and with a responsible budget, and I'm interested. Instead we have willy-nilly spending, tax credits, band-aid solutions for decades old problems and the courting of special interest groups. Its really too bad.

Agreed. Alberta Party seems like a valid option, but unfortunately, as an actual grassroots party, they lack the money and organization (unlike a splinter cell like the Wildrose Alliance) to be viable in a stupid first-past-the-post election this time. Of course it doesn't help that their leader wasn't invited to the debate either.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Generally speaking, the better the politician the worse they are at governing. And it seems no one is a slicker politician right now than Danielle Smith. Another thing that worrries me. She seems all style and little substance.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Agreed. Alberta Party seems like a valid option, but unfortunately, as an actual grassroots party, they lack the money and organization (unlike a splinter cell like the Wildrose Alliance) to be viable in a stupid first-past-the-post election this time. Of course it doesn't help that their leader wasn't invited to the debate either.

Yeah, that's what real "grassroots" parties look like. A party that's supported by the city's corporate elite is probably not "grassroots."

I'm going to vote for whoever has the most bitchin' mustache. Is that Redford or Smith?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

She seems all country-western style and little substance.

I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of fixing your post.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of fixing your post.

Well played sir, well played.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

I'm saddened that apparently voting for "change" means voting for the guys who we all ditched not even 10 years ago.

Not sure who you are referring to that we ditched? The PC's have been and are sliding to the left, the WR is a shift back to where the PC's were.

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

And the ironic thing about the dividend cheques is the potential hidden cost to most people. If oil is going for say $150 a barrel and the dividend cheques happen, is it really a benefit if everyone has to pay $1,000 extra for gas to offset the higher oil? Its a nice bait and switch actually, pay $1,000 to get $300. And sadly most people will think they've come out ahead.

The Alberta government does not set oil prices. So you can pay the market rate for gas and get no dividend cheque or you can pay the market rate and get a dividend cheque, you decide but the price of oil is not affected either way. Unless you want the government to directly subsidize gas prices?

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

The social issues bother me a bit

I assume you are talking about conscience rights? that is the only social policy that people seem to have a problem with. If you are concerned about that then you probably won't like the PC's either since the guy standing over Redford's right shoulder (Morton) is the second most powerful member of the party and authored Bill 208, google it.

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

Overall though this race already sadly seems over, its just a matter of Wildrose majority or minority. I just hope people understand the "change" they are voting for isn't really change at all.

The campaign is only 1/2 over so nothing has been decided yet. As for change, it depends on your perception. The PC's of today are nowhere near the PC's of the recent past.

As for the numbers not adding up, all parties are promising the moon.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Agreed. Alberta Party seems like a valid option, but unfortunately, as an actual grassroots party, they lack the money and organization (unlike a splinter cell like the Wildrose Alliance) to be viable in a stupid first-past-the-post election this time. Of course it doesn't help that their leader wasn't invited to the debate either.

Well the other problem with the Alberta Party is that spent two years doing the "Big Listen" and came out with basically no policy. That and they had all these events and no one bothered to bring a calculator.

[Jacks]

They did a profile of the Alberta Party leader on the radio this morning, I can never remember his name.

Anyway, the funny part was when he said he plans to form government in the next 5 years. Good luck with that buddy.

[Bunk]

You ripped off my name.

Originally Posted by The_Bunk

So I've been creeping this whole forum for a while now, mostly since the Cup last year when I was living on the Island and had to endure with Canucks fans non-stop. I needed a place for ridiculous, absurd Canucks bashing and this place was the best by far, especially the riot thread. But I finally decided to join because the Off-Topic forum seems awesome, and here especially the political discussion is mostly civilized and engaging unlike most places.


Anyways, getting to the political stuff, I'm saddened that apparently voting for "change" means voting for the guys who we all ditched not even 10 years ago. Beyond that the Wildrose to date hasn't impressed me with their platform, not the least of which has to do with the fact I don't think their numbers are realistic. No way can they balance the budget while improving health care, offer all these credits and bribes...errr....dividend cheques. And the ironic thing about the dividend cheques is the potential hidden cost to most people. If oil is going for say $150 a barrel and the dividend cheques happen, is it really a benefit if everyone has to pay $1,000 extra for gas to offset the higher oil? Its a nice bait and switch actually, pay $1,000 to get $300. And sadly most people will think they've come out ahead.


The social issues bother me a bit, but its the economic issues that really concern me. As someone in school for business, I just cannot see the math working for them, especially if tax increases and changes to the royalty structure are non-starters for the Wildrose. But the PCs aren't any better, and the Libs and NDP are dead before they even begin. The Alberta Party is somewhat intruiging, though like the Wildrose as a newbie to the scene, I have a few questions about their policies.


Overall though this race already sadly seems over, its just a matter of Wildrose majority or minority. I just hope people understand the "change" they are voting for isn't really change at all.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

They did a profile of the Alberta Party leader on the radio this morning, I can never remember his name.

Anyway, the funny part was when he said he plans to form government in the next 5 years. Good luck with that buddy.

Well, he can plan it if he wants. I plan to become a millionaire and buy my own island during the same period of time.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Makarov

What would a relevant response to a photo of Danielle Smith riding a horse be?

Anyway, I admit that I am a petty person to let this sort of thing bother me. However, I still think that these sorts of press photos show who the Wildrose Alliance is targetting as their demographic, and it isn't me. Once again, I don't support the party forming government in Edmonton. It just gets a little old after, you know, 35 years (i.e., my entire life living in Calgary.) I can't believe I'm even defending/considering voting for the PCs this election. Good grief.

I don't think that photo has anything to do with the WRA and everything to do with Globe and Mail insisting on pushing the Alberta stereotype. Why the rural pic, and not the one of her in Vulcan flanked by Kirk and Spock, or one outside the south hospital or any other of thousands of photos taken by the party. All you have to do is look at that photo for your answer: Ranchland, horses, cowboy hat, blue jeans, wire fences, mountains in distance... all that was missing was a pumpjack spewing oil and two guys shooting revolvers in the air to complete the caricature.

Typical garbage from a paper with the audacity to run an article that "Alberta moves to the present" when Redford became our first female Premier. The article itself was sheer stupidity. The Wildrose hasnt even won yet, how can one even begin to predict Election 2016?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Makarov

What would a relevant response to a photo of Danielle Smith riding a horse be?

Another one.....

Anyway, I admit that I am a petty person to let this sort of thing bother me. However, I still think that these sorts of press photos show who the Wildrose Alliance is targetting as their demographic, and it isn't me. Once again, I don't support the party forming government in Edmonton.

All the leaders do photo ops with candidates. This one was with Tom Copithorne the Banff-Cochrane candidate. His family has a ranch history that goes back to the 1800's; it was fitting they go horseback riding together.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bunk

You ripped off my name.

True, although I note that his signature ("I'm just a humble mother f***** with a big ass d***.....ok, I'm not that humble") seems slightly more badass than your fitnesspal weightloss thermometer.

[Senator Clay Davis]

[/QUOTE]Not sure who you are referring to that we ditched? The PC's have been and are sliding to the left, the WR is a shift back to where the PC's were.[/QUOTE]

But the Wildrose aren't really a fiscal return to the where the PCs are. In fact from what I can see they just simply intend on spending the same amount of money or more, just in different focus areas. But as someone who believes strongly not so much in fiscal conservatism but rather fiscal responsibility and efficiency, the Wildrose platform hardly qualifies as either.


[/QUOTE]The Alberta government does not set oil prices. So you can pay the market rate for gas and get no dividend cheque or you can pay the market rate and get a dividend cheque, you decide but the price of oil is not affected either way. Unless you want the government to directly subsidize gas prices?.[/QUOTE]

I get that the government doesn't set prices, but its still a win-lose situation. If we get the dividend, its likely because of high oil prices, which unto themselves have negative consequences on the general public generally in the form of higher expenses.


[/QUOTE]I assume you are talking about conscience rights? that is the only social policy that people seem to have a problem with. If you are concerned about that then you probably won't like the PC's either since the guy standing over Redford's right shoulder (Morton) is the second most powerful member of the party and authored Bill 208, google it.[/QUOTE]

The conscience rights thing seems so unbelievably silly to me. If its almost certainly going to be struck down as several people have pointed out in this thread, then why even bring it up? But overall because the Wildrose is a right leaning party with many "social" conservatives, and generally speaking my views quite conflict with "social" conservatives

[/QUOTE]The campaign is only 1/2 over so nothing has been decided yet. As for change, it depends on your perception. The PC's of today are nowhere near the PC's of the recent past.

As for the numbers not adding up, all parties are promising the moon.[/QUOTE]

But lets be real. The Libs/NDP have no shot, and the PCs are seemingly either way too overconfident or they're accepting of their demise, because they sure aren't doing much to boost their support. I'll be shocked at this point in anyone but the Wildrose forms the next government