Transgendered Miss Universe Canada finalist disqualified

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Yeah and their own lunch counters too!!

So you support uni-sex public bathrooms, locker rooms etc?

You would support female participation in NHL hockey?

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

[IntenseFan]

Happy to be in here before this thread gets

In all seriousness, there are fewer issues today that bring up such emotional responses. But we should be very careful we aren't inciting hatred ourselves in our vigour to prevent others from inciting hatred.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I think you need to read my post more carefully.

The "hatred" I was expressing was not toward the gender confused participant in question, but the follow-up bullying/intimidation of a private organization that has its own set of rules, all under the guise of pc liberal dogma.

Why should people be precluded from pointing out and criticizing what they see as examples of injustice? And yes, if there are enough people who see something as an example of injustice, why shouldn't an organization take a good hard look at the impugned policy?

Presumably, if the people at the Miss Universe Pageant truly felt that they held the moral high ground, they would not have caved in to the pressure?

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

So you support uni-sex public bathrooms, locker rooms etc?

You would support female participation in NHL hockey?

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

This person in question does not require a uni-sex bathroom or locker room, since she is a female from birth. And to the NHL question ............

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

So you support uni-sex public bathrooms, locker rooms etc?

You would support female participation in NHL hockey?

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Yes, there are objectively rational reasons why there should not be female participation in NHL hockey (physical differences between men and women and the risk of injury) or uni-sex bathrooms (privacy).

What is the objectively rational reason why someone who identifies as a female, looks like a female, is now female in all of the most significant biological ways, should not be permitted to compete in a silly beauty pageant for females? In what way is being born with a vagina relevant to the smooth and fair operation of a beauty pageant?

[comrade]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I think you need to read my post more carefully.

The "hatred" I was expressing was not toward the gender confused participant in question, but the follow-up bullying/intimidation of a private organization that has its own set of rules, all under the guise of pc liberal dogma.

Of the 3 gay people that I know in my circle of friends/acquaintances, not one of them would describe me as hateful toward gays. Ironically, one of these friends from high school used to call everyone a fag for one reason or another. Years later he popped up on my facebook and lo and behold he is gay and proud of it.

Are they aware that you post under the handle mikey_the_redneck on calgarypuck?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Why should people be precluded from pointing out and criticizing what they see as examples of injustice? And yes, if there are enough people who see something as an example of injustice, why shouldn't an organization take a good hard look at the impugned policy?

Presumably, if the people at the Miss Universe Pageant truly felt that they held the moral high ground, they would not have caved in to the pressure?

I think in all due fairness that their decision had very little to do with some moral high ground or doing the right thing or not doing the right thing.

I think their decision was based around public relations and pressures from their sponsers.

I'm not sure that this is as much a victory for transgendered rights as it is for fear of possible negative publicity.

I don't know if I'm really putting this right but the vast majority of companies will make a decision not based around doing the right thing, but around how making a decision based on their own values or rules will effect their public persona.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by comrade

Are they aware that you post under the handle mikey_the_redneck on calgarypuck?

"I'm not a homophobic bigot, some of my best friends are gay!"

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Why should people be precluded from pointing out and criticizing what they see as examples of injustice? And yes, if there are enough people who see something as an example of injustice, why shouldn't an organization take a good hard look at the impugned policy?

They compromised on their standards after the political/public pressure....so it wasn't organic.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think in all due fairness that their decision had very little to do with some moral high ground or doing the right thing or not doing the right thing.

I think their decision was based around public relations and pressures from their sponsers.

I'm not sure that this is as much a victory for transgendered rights as it is for fear of possible negative publicity.

I don't know if I'm really putting this right but the vast majority of companies will make a decision not based around doing the right thing, but around how making a decision based on their own values or rules will effect their public persona.

I think the fact that they made the decision they did speaks volumes to what is considered acceptable in our society.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

This person in question does not require a uni-sex bathroom or locker room, since she is a female from birth. And to the NHL question ............

Sure.......

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think in all due fairness that their decision had very little to do with some moral high ground or doing the right thing or not doing the right thing.

I think their decision was based around public relations and pressures from their sponsers.

I'm not sure that this is as much a victory for transgendered rights as it is for fear of possible negative publicity.

I don't know if I'm really putting this right but the vast majority of companies will make a decision not based around doing the right thing, but around how making a decision based on their own values or rules will effect their public persona.

Bingo.

[GrrlGoalie33]

I am wondering for those of you who are so against gender reassignment or the transgendered community in general, have you had the opportunity to sit down and speak with someone who is transgendered?

Doing so, and trying to understand the issue from a personal perspective, rather than internet research might provide you with some valuable insight that internet research can't give you.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

This person in question does not require a uni-sex bathroom or locker room, since she is a female from birth. And to the NHL question ............

A couple of things (that have already been discussed here) is that male/female is standard sex categorization based on biology/physiology. In this regards, she was absolutely not female at birth. Masculine/feminine are standard gender categories. Blurring the lines between the two does not make it correct and just presents itself as a political bias with nothing to back it up.

Putting that aside, I do not think that it would be provable either way as there is no definitive way to test it. Nobody can say with any certainty the the person would develop the same traits if brought up in a different environment (not just in terms of gender but all facets of personality, ability, etc).

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think the fact that they made the decision they did speaks volumes to what is considered acceptable in our society.

Which part? Allowing her to compete or forcing a decision through political pressure/lobbying?

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Which part? Allowing her to compete or forcing a decision through political pressure/lobbying?

Many of our social ideologies have been forced through political pressuring and lobbying.

African-American's would still be sitting at the back of the bus and drinking from their own water fountains without it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think the fact that they made the decision they did speaks volumes to what is considered acceptable in our society.

Maybe, I don't want to get into the whole debate that's going on here about the actual person themself.

But this I think was more an excercise in marketing and business then an vindication one way or the other.


I can guarantee you that this girl will probably be eliminated early on in the process though, she's going to be judged by an entirely different criteria and looked at in an entirely different way.

[johnnyrocket03]

Originally Posted by Frankster

Many of our social ideologies have been forced through political pressuring and lobbying.

African-American's would still be sitting at the back of the bus and drinking from their own water fountains without it.

What would you call someone whose great grandfather immigrated from Jamaica? Haiti?

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by johnnyrocket03

What would you call someone who's great grandfather immigrated from Jamaica? Haiti?

What term is socially acceptable these days then? I will gladly update my post. No insensitivity intended.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by johnnyrocket03

What would you call someone who's great grandfather immigrated from Jamaica? Haiti?

the coolest Great Grandpa on the block?