April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[yads]

I've gone through the platforms of everyone, but NDP. Alberta party is currently just the party of good intentions. PCs really blew it with me with the 2012 budget. WRP, really blew it with that dividends announcement.

Liberals have the most well thought out platform imo. The tax increases look to be pretty reasonable, however, their free tuition promise is just insane.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Is someone making $100,000/year really 'rich' and deserving of punitive taxation in a province where an average single family home costs 4 times that amount? Is $100,000 / year the right bar to set that at (And also would this be linked to inflation?)

Off topic, but someone making $100,000 a year should not be getting paid money just for being old out of general revenue. (Looking at you, federal Conservatives and OAS.)

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by morgin

You pay the same percentage as the 99% on everything up to $100,000 (creative accounting and tax sheltering aside).

And that's where I have my problem. In Alberta people with incomes > $100,000 actually compose 10% of the province according to the Liberals own statistics. It's actually 10% that are targeted, not in occupy parlance 'The 1%.' Is someone that makes over $100K 'Rich.' Reasonably well off, sure, but so rich that their marginal earnings need to be punitively taxed.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You're so sure about that? All the posters in this thread who could be considered as representatives of "the left" are saying that surpluses should be 100% invested into the Heritage Fund!

Yep, pretty sure. The great thing about the Heritage Fund, if you are of that persuasion, is that the money is still in the gov't pocket and it's easy to argue for spending 'just a little of it'. The great thing about rebates (or even better less tax in the first place) is that the money is with the individual.

Just my opinion, but I think the overall proposal is a second or third best approach to managing uncertain gov't revenue streams. Gov't should budget conservatively on this revenue - the question to me is around what to do when extra shows up. My big problem with saving it all is gov'ts love to add program spending when they have $$. Really, my point is about the polar opposite to the theme of the thread - I think gov't will do something wasteful with the money whereas you (the collective not anyone in particular) think people will do something wasteful. Both are probably true but one provides me personally with a choice.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Yep, pretty sure. The great thing about the Heritage Fund, if you are of that persuasion, is that the money is still in the gov't pocket and it's easy to argue for spending 'just a little of it'. The great thing about rebates (or even better less tax in the first place) is that the money is with the individual.

Just my opinion, but I think the overall proposal is a second or third best approach to managing uncertain gov't revenue streams. Gov't should budget conservatively on this revenue - the question to me is around what to do when extra shows up. My big problem with saving it all is gov'ts love to add program spending when they have $$. Really, my point is about the polar opposite to the theme of the thread - I think gov't will do something wasteful with the money whereas you (the collective not anyone in particular) think people will do something wasteful. Both are probably true but one provides me personally with a choice.

How much of your Ralph Bucks do you still have left? I would imagine that the number for 99.9% of the population is less than whatever they have in their pocket. That money could otherwise be put towards infrastructure projects, which last longer and provide jobs in Alberta thus putting money back into the province.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Cscutch

After having a quick discussion with a few nurse friends of mine, one way we could look at saving some money in health care is make all nurses full time.

There are many nurses out there that are considered part-time but consistently work full time hours. I think if any hour over there normal work time is paid out double time... But also in certain situations it can be triple time.

Chris

I personally know a few nurses that do exactly this. From talking to them, this practice it is rampant.

[Jacks]

Just heard that attack ad again.

Layoffs for over 3000 teachers!
2000 doctors gone!!
3000 nurses cut!!!
and over 100 million dollars less for seniors and those most vunerable!!!!

Looks like their tagline is "Danielle Smith and the Wildrose, not worth the risk".

What a load of crap, I don't mind attack ads but they have to be based on truth not total fabrications.

[getbak]

Drunk driving, hookers, and now they want to kill all the old people?

Boy, I was starting to drift away, but the Wildrose have pulled me back in.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Just heard that attack ad again.



Looks like their tagline is "Danielle Smith and the Wildrose, not worth the risk".

What a load of crap, I don't mind attack ads but they have to be based on truth not total fabrications.

Ya, fair enough, but the Wildrose does have a problem of their own making here. We all know they're cutting but haven't laid it out. So until they do, people are basically going to try to piece it together and it likely won't look pretty.

I don't know if the numbers in the attack ad are right, but I also don't know that they're wrong.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know if the numbers in the attack ad are right, but I also don't know that they're wrong.

Oh come on, seriously?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Oh come on, seriously?

OK, well do you know? I have no idea really? I'm not even trying to be difficult here. I don't know what they would cut from health and education, I just know its enough to balance the budget and pay for some promises.

[Jacks]

The only thing missing from that ad was "We're not making this up, we're not allowed to". You endorsing it is sad.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

The only thing missing from that ad was "We're not making this up, we're not allowed to". You endorsing it is sad.

Whoa, hold on, I didn't say I was endorsing anything. I haven't even heard/seen this thing, so I'm not endorsing anything. All I'm saying is that everyone knows the Wildrose will be cutting, right? No one knows what they're planning to cut or how deep. That's why the PCs can get away with an ad like that.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

l

Originally Posted by automaton 3

I personally know a few nurses that do exactly this. From talking to them, this practice it is rampant.

Welcome to the folly that is a hiring freeze and layoffs. It sounds like it will save money but it will cost a lot more in the long (as well as the short) run. The fact is that minimum standards need to be in place in order to ensure quality of care from both an ethical and from a legal standpoint. This requires a lot of nurses to pick up overtime in that the scheduling office is calling and often times begging for nurses to come in and work... because what is the other option?

That being said if you want to save money in the health care system, primary care networks need to be implimented which are capable of assisting people before they require the use of acute care facilities, combine that with greater funding for long term care facilities and make it favourable for people to have their elderly relatives live with them and you could save massive amounts of money.

Being conservative isn't always about cutting costs, it is about looking for ways to effectively spend money. Any idiot can randomly slash jobs, cut pay and the like but it takes foresight in order to spend money in a manner which benefits the citizens now and in the future.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There is such a thing as over subsidization of tuition. Quebec has over subsidized their tuition to a point that its not sustainable and either the services offered goes in the toilet, or they increase tuition and have their students rioting in the streets. I believe in free education up until university or college but your making an investment in your future and better future earnings so you should be willing to pay a price.

See also the violent protests in England last year over tuition hikes. "Free" tuition is an abysmally stupid idea from the New Democratic Liberal Party. Even dumber than the Smithbucks proposal.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

See also the violent protests in England last year over tuition hikes. "Free" tuition is an abysmally stupid idea from the New Democratic Liberal Party. Even dumber than the Smithbucks proposal.

I agree with this, I do think that education should remain subsidized because of the obvious benefit to the province and the country but the student should have to put capital towards it as well. It isn't cheap but anything worth achieving in life isn't. Student loans are one option and I would like a system where if a certain GPA is reached X percentage of the student loan is forgiven and if for high demand professions they stay in Alberta (Doctors and Nurses come to mind) a certain percentage is forgiven and if they relocate to a rural setting where the services are in demand then a further percentage is forgiven.

[Slava]

Aside from the funding, why is free post-secondary a bad idea? We need more skilled workers here and removing the financial barriers seems like a good way to encourage students. No one would suggest that every student be allowed in; there would still be academic requirements and prerequisites so it might even make things more competitive.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the funding, why is free post-secondary a bad idea? We need more skilled workers here and removing the financial barriers seems like a good way to encourage students. No one would suggest that every student be allowed in; there would still be academic requirements and prerequisites so it might even make things more competitive.

I think that it costs somewhere around $6,500 for a student to go to school + books for a school year. There are student loan programs which are available in order to assist people from low income households, and I think that it is open to anyone now.

Education, while expensive is seen as an investment for the future on the part of the student as well as the state and as such I think that it is fair that both parties put capital towards it and the province already does subsidize education.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the funding, why is free post-secondary a bad idea? We need more skilled workers here and removing the financial barriers seems like a good way to encourage students. No one would suggest that every student be allowed in; there would still be academic requirements and prerequisites so it might even make things more competitive.

One reason has already been mentioned, that being that a person without a financial stake in their education is less likely to take it seriously. There is also no guarantee that a graduating student would remain in Alberta post-graduation. In fact, some industries almost require that a graduate move elsewhere. So why would we pay for someone else to benefit?

And frankly, the world doesn't need more hipsters with their free Liberal Arts degrees clogging up other welfare systems.

[Slava]

Ya, I suppose I'm of two minds on this. I think removing financial barriers is a great thing and makes it easier for kids to continue their education. I know that some countries have pursued this (although specific examples escape me at this point) and I'd be interested to hear their experience with it.

I also do think that I had to take out huge student loans and pushed through, so why shouldn't everyone do that? We do pay for post-secondary education to some extent here, and the end gain is the students so the student should pay. I see the logic here, and having gone through it myself I do kind of agree with it. That said, those student loans were a huge burden and graduating with that hanging over your head sucks!