April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

You certainly seem to have implied that they ought to have paid this back.

When? I remember saying that they should either pay it back or don't pay it back but paying a little bit back is silly.

Originally Posted by Slava

The removal of these transition payments is from now on, so its not needed to be paid back.

I was saying that you can't force them to pay back the commitee money or take away the severance money, not that they would need to pay back severance money.

Originally Posted by Slava

She also says that if she loses she won't take the allowance. Its actually a big concession on her part.

Get serious, it's a desperate move. If they hadn't crashed in the polls she wouldn't be making any concessions. Reminds me of Paul Martin running around saying he would ban handguns and take away the not withstanding clause.

[GP_Matt]

Just keeping track of her statements regarding the committee pay.

On March 12, Wildrose MLAs Heather Forsyth and Guy Boutilier vow to return the money; party leader Danielle Smith says they decided that of their own accord. Premier Alison Redford suspends MLA pay for all committees and calls the opposition repayments "a convenient stunt to try and polarize an issue."

On March 15, Redford says she won't force any committee members to pay back salary, but warns that

voters will make their opinions known on election day.

Asked why they just returned six months of pay when others, like the Wildrose members and Liberal Leader Raj Sherman were going to return all the money they earned from the committee, Redford said her caucus's decisions reflected her values.
"I can't revisit the past," she said.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I don't know if they can voluntarily pay it back or not but you certainly can't force then to pay it back.

Probably not, but she can blackmai... err I mean bar them from the PC caucus.

[Slava]

Ya, well in reality the Liberals should own this issue. David Swann paid money back before the uproar (actually donated to charity I think) and Raj Sherman paid the whole amount plus interest weeks ago. The Liberals were the only party who voted against the pay increase in 2008 as well.

Paul Hinman thought he should be paid more and didn't want to pay anything back. Heather Forsyth relented and agreed to pay hers back as well.

Frankly, there are a lot of MLAs who don't want to take action unless there is an election. Its a problem, regardless of the party affiliation really.

I don't think that Redford would have ended transition allowances if there was no election, but the only one I can honestly say would've paid back the committee cash with no election in sight is Swann. Despite political leanings and such one thing about him is that he is incredibly ethical and honest, so I think he would've.

To be honest, ending transition allowances is terrible policy. Yes, it saves money. This is a high pressure job though and there is no pension. They do get an RRSP allowance each year, but its a mere $11k or something. Considering the role and expectations its not that generous.

[kn]

I read online of a couple people with the intention of voting WRP but unimpressed with the Senate elections who plan to not vote for any Senate candidate. Would this spoil the ballot?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by kn

I read online of a couple people with the intention of voting WRP but unimpressed with the Senate elections who plan to not vote for any Senate candidate. Would this spoil the ballot?

Unfortunately not!

They're two separate ballots.

[GP_Matt]

If you accept that the money was not deserved then do you think it is adequate to give the money to charity. "Sorry I took all that money from you but don't worry I gave it to a charity so it is all good"

I think the far bigger issue than the actual money is how it is used. If you are good and stay in line then Redford will allow you to join a committee of her choosing and you will be paid for it. If you step out of line you can be removed from the committees and have your paycheck reduced by 30% for a few months until you are satisfactorily apologetic. If the optics are better then maybe all the money will be canceled for everyone for a little while until the public forgets and if the public is really mad then you will have to pay it all back or you will be relegated to the sidelines for the rest of your career.

A system like this will only attract yes men and rich people to public office. I can't imagine that a younger MLA would be able to scrounge up $40000 in the middle of an election campaign.

[Slava]

I actually disagree with giving the money to charity, but there are actually a lot of problems with just "paying it back". Before I even say this, I do think its the right thing to do.

You can't just cut a cheque though. When Kent Hehr ran for mayor he wanted to not be paid as an MLA. We looked at every angle and you couldn't just not take a cheque. You could resign entirely, or be paid. He donated his salary to charity (and ended up not officially running).

The other issue is about taxes and how that is reconciled. Then you have interest to figure out. Then you have some MLAs who sat on more committees and are still paid for a maximum of three...are they exempt from paying money back? How do you determine who was paid for that committee and who wasn't in those cases? It really is a mess.

[Cheerio]

I think I'm going to vote for Andrew Constantidis because I don't like Redford very much, and his son was my valedictorian last year.

[GP_Matt]

You can't pay the money back but I am pretty sure you can write a cheque to the government of Alberta as a voluntary contribution. I know you can with the federal government.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

You can't pay the money back but I am pretty sure you can write a cheque to the government of Alberta as a voluntary contribution. I know you can with the federal government.

Really? It just goes as general revenue or something? I know you can do that with CRA for taxes, but I didn't know that you could just cut a cheque for a donation of sorts. Why would anyone do that?

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Jacks

This stinks of a desperate campaign that is in full panic mode. Wonder how many MLA's will tell her to stuff it?

Agreed. Chances are not everyone in the money for nothing committee will return all the monies, if any at all. When that happens, it'll not only fracture the party but also make her look weak and desperate. The damage has been done and nothing Redford does at this point could reverse it. It is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Slava

Paul Hinman thought he should be paid more and didn't want to pay anything back.

Hinman later agreed to pay back everything. Far as I know, anyone not in the PC party paid or had agreed to pay back everything from the money for nothing committee.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

Really? It just goes as general revenue or something? I know you can do that with CRA for taxes, but I didn't know that you could just cut a cheque for a donation of sorts. Why would anyone do that?

I have heard of people doing it in their will before. It all came up when Warren Buffet was discussing that taxes should be higher for the rich. It was pointed out to him that he had the ability to make a voluntary contribution. I think the Financial Post ran a story discussing that it was also possible in Canada but it was rare.
I couldn't tell you why people would do it although spiting your children seems like a possibility.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html Here is a link for the US system.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Hinman later agreed to pay back everything. Far as I know, anyone not in the PC party paid or had agreed to pay back everything from the money for nothing committee.

Right, and as I noted its pretty obvious that he did that because of the election and not some altruistic idea all of a sudden. Like I said, its a problem in general and not specific to any one party if the only time politicians feel like they should act and be accountable is when an election draws near.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I have heard of people doing it in their will before. It all came up when Warren Buffet was discussing that taxes should be higher for the rich. It was pointed out to him that he had the ability to make a voluntary contribution. I think the Financial Post ran a story discussing that it was also possible in Canada but it was rare.
I couldn't tell you why people would do it although spiting your children seems like a possibility.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html Here is a link for the US system.

I just didn't know people did that. Most people I've seen give it to charity instead.

[AnybodyButPC]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Obvious troll is obvious.

Sorry for appearing to be trolling. I perused an number of forums and this one looked like it had many intelligent and knowledgable people who might be able to shed some light on my concern. Our PC MLA won't talk to me and our WR candidate is busy fighting an election battle. Redford and the "new" PC's scare me

Originally Posted by First Lady

Rob Solinger was one of our latter candidates. Here is his website.



I believe Troutman has posted about this. I will try to find the link.

Found this http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ghlight=estate

Not sure if it is exactly what you are looking for, but I know changes were recently passed. Troutman would really be the CP "go to" person on this.

Thank you First Lady The link was very helpful

[darklord700]

“Further, the overly generous transition allowances paid to retiring MLAs are suspended from this day forward and I will not accept a transition allowance, win, lose or draw.”

I don't think Redford has the power to stop the transition allowances but I could be wrong. Anyway, at least Redford is not getting one by her own accord.

[GP_Matt]

Do you think her or any other politician will turn down the money if they have already been defeated? Wasn't Mar given a hard time for promising not to accept the severance and then taking it anyway when he stepped down to take up the posting in Washington?

[crazy_eoj]

PC's sure seem to be scattering already. Kind of crazy, actually.