April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[Tinordi]

This whole libertarian ethic that's currently in fashion is so woefully unable to deal with the demands of post-modern industrial economies like Canada. Looking at these arguments that SebC just roundly refuted is more proof that added populism based on fundamentally flawed ways in which the world works is not a legitimate alternative to government.

I think alot of voters in this thread need to digest that. If it sounds too good to be true in an election campaign and if it amends easily to a simple framework on how government should work and how society works I would be very cautious. The basic idea is that growing populations and economies like Alberta's are increasingly difficult to govern and manage. As more cosmopolitan and diverse wants, needs, and tradeoffs present themselves in this mix we have a tendency to trend toward the simple and easy to understand.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yikes.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Flanagan is a no BS guy who knows politics. He's not afraid to criticize if he thinks the party is heading in the wrong direction, he'll be an asset to the Wildrose.

It's funny, you know the Wildrose must be gaining traction when all the Liberal and other "progressive" folks on here are attacking them full force and giving the PC's a pass. If the Wildrose was polling in the teens those same people would be running down the PC's and promoting the Liberals.

I'll bet a shiny loonie that more than 50% of the people on here who voted Liberal last time vote PC this time.

[photon]

Did Alberta all of a sudden realize the do not call list is a great source of phone numbers or something? I've been called more by candidates and polls in the past week than I've ever been called with the same in my entire life it seems.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Jacks

It's funny, you know the Wildrose must be gaining traction when all the Liberal and other "progressive" folks on here are attacking them full force and giving the PC's a pass. If the Wildrose was polling in the teens those same people would be running down the PC's and promoting the Liberals.

I'll bet a shiny loonie that more than 50% of the people on here who voted Liberal last time vote PC this time.

Heck, if the Liberals were relevant I'd be poking holes in their platform as well. They've gone way the hell left in this election (whereas before Swann, it was sometimes tough to differentiate between Liberal and PC). My gambit is that talking about policy ideas individually will yield better government than attaching myself to one party and advocating for every aspect of their platform (even if I don't agree with it).

Having said that, I'll still be voting Liberal because I like their candidate in my riding and I'm in a riding where it's not a throw-away vote.

I'll also note that the WRP is being criticized specifically because we expect them to cause the same kind of infrastructure deficits that Klein created - that's hardly a "free pass" for the PCs.

[Azure]

Not sure where balanced budget automatically creates 'infrastructure deficits.'

You can't sustain deficit spending forever. Alberta spends more than any other province already. They need to cut back and make sure they're set for the long-term. The savings fund should ONLY be used in a recession where revenues decrease substantially.

[bomba]

I'm definitely voting for Wildrose this election. Looking for a change and some new ideas. Like that they want smaller, less bloated government.

[Slava]

The Wildrose is being criticized here because they purport to have a solution figured out for everything. They can balance the budget, improve services and increase savings with no new taxes. Its an early easter miracle! Just forget that none of this is actually budgeted for!

It is true that if they were way down in the polls the PCs would get that attack instead, but for a platform as amazing as this one it should be of little concern to the Wildrose.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

The Wildrose is being criticized here because they purport to have a solution figured out for everything. They can balance the budget, improve services and increase savings with no new taxes. Its an early easter miracle! Just forget that none of this is actually budgeted for!

It is true that if they were way down in the polls the PCs would get that attack instead, but for a platform as amazing as this one it should be of little concern to the Wildrose.

As opposed to the PCs and their spend like complete fools solution? The whole $40 billion dollar record budget was nothing more than an attempt to buy votes, and it is obviously not working as planned.

I don't think the WR Party is saying they have a solution to everything. They just believe in fiscal responsibility, and I support them because of that.

When your budget increases get to the point where increase in revenue can't cover it, at some point you have to cut essential services. If the PCs had done some better planning, Alberta wouldn't be in this position right now. How you can possibly justify throwing more money at everything that comes along is beyond me. $100 million here, $100 million there....pretty soon you're talking about real money.

I find it rather hilarious how you and MMF are getting so worked up, when Alberta will still be spending MORE on MOST things even if they DO run a balanced budget.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

As opposed to the PCs and their spend like complete fools solution? The whole $40 billion dollar record budget was nothing more than an attempt to buy votes, and it is obviously not working as planned.

I don't think the WR Party is saying they have a solution to everything. They just believe in fiscal responsibility, and I support them because of that.

When your budget increases get to the point where increase in revenue can't cover it, at some point you have to cut essential services. If the PCs had done some better planning, Alberta wouldn't be in this position right now. How you can possibly justify throwing more money at everything that comes along is beyond me. $100 million here, $100 million there....pretty soon you're talking about real money.

I find it rather hilarious how you and MMF are getting so worked up, when Alberta will still be spending MORE on MOST things even if they DO run a balanced budget.

So what? We're the fastest growing province in the midst of developing a resource which is basically the economic driver of the entire country at this point. We need to spend money. No one else is going to build the highways, schools and care facilities for us!

You pointing out that we can't afford it is only true if you limit yourself by saying you won't raise taxes. We can definitely afford it. Go from the flat tax to a progressive tax (like virtually every other jurisdiction in the free world!) and the money is there.

Lastly, and this is a big deal - The Wildrose can't afford their budget either! The elephant in the room here is that they're relying on resource revenue to keep taxes low and at the same time promise to find enough efficiencies and basically cut in areas so no one can notice. Its pure smoke and mirrors. There is no plan there, and nothing considered for a day when the revenues decrease. Thats hardly fiscally responsible.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by photon

Did Alberta all of a sudden realize the do not call list is a great source of phone numbers or something? I've been called more by candidates and polls in the past week than I've ever been called with the same in my entire life it seems.

Yeah, it's been pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure where they get their info from either because I got a call yesterday from the PC candidate for Calgary-Glenmore, where I haven't lived for two years.

People aren't too happy with it: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...292/story.html

[kn]

I'm not seeing any WRP presence in Calgary-Varsity. Just judging by signs, it seems to be a race between the PCs and Liberals.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think the WR Party is saying they have a solution to everything. They just believe in fiscal responsibility, and I support them because of that.

Every party believes in "fiscal responsibility". You find that rhetoric in every political party's or politician's platform. It's how effectve you actually are at the fiscal management of government and an economy. History shows that fiscally "conservative" ideological approaches do not always result in the best fiscal managment - e.g. Bill Clinton vs. George W. Bush.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Every party believes in "fiscal responsibility". You find that rhetoric in every political party's or politician's platform. It's how effectve you actually are at the fiscal management of government and an economy. History shows that fiscally "conservative" ideological approaches do not always result in the best fiscal managment - e.g. Bill Clinton vs. George W. Bush.

You aren't saying the Bush is fiscally conservative are you? Clinton was far more fiscally conservative than Bush ever was. Bushes compassionate conservative platform he ran on pretty much defined him from the beginning as a spender.

To me a conservative platform is a platform where the government only funds necessities like police, EMS, health care, etc, while keeping taxes only as high as necessary to pay for them with a little left over to save for the future. Bush may not have liked taxes, but that alone doesn't make him a fiscal conservative.

[AnybodyButPC]

Would anyone be kind enough to point in the direction where I can find info about Dredford allowing the government to overrule my last will and testament please? I found mention of it in Hansard but no meat That is too scary...

[Slava]

Originally Posted by AnybodyButPC

Would anyone be kind enough to point in the direction where I can find info about Dredford allowing the government to overrule my last will and testament please? I found mention of it in Hansard but no meat That is too scary...

I don't know offhand, but can you add a little more insight to what you're asking about? This is the first I've heard about governments interfering in estates, which isn't to say its not the case, I just think that we would have heard something about it. Although nothing really important has been discussed in the campaign so far, so who knows.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by AnybodyButPC

Would anyone be kind enough to point in the direction where I can find info about Dredford allowing the government to overrule my last will and testament please? I found mention of it in Hansard but no meat That is too scary...

Seriously?

[Resolute 14]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[stacey]

Originally Posted by kn

I'm not seeing any WRP presence in Calgary-Varsity. Just judging by signs, it seems to be a race between the PCs and Liberals.

I doubt that will be much of a "race"

[GP_Matt]

I quite like the flat tax. And in a previous post I broke down pretty clearly that it isn't exactly a flat tax because of the personal exemptions. If I recall right Slava, you responded to my post with the statement that you didn't really want the tax to go up as it would cost you more money personally.
Raising taxes might make sense if we had a revenue problem but I think we have a spending problem. And for those advocating that we need to raise taxes to build a nest egg for the future that sounds way too much like you think the government should be taking our money and putting it away for the future because we are incapable of doing it ourselves.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Jacks

She should lay off that stuff, when I heard it on the radio this morning I thought it was pretty nasty. Doesn't matter if that was only a small portion of a larger quote, the media will only report the sound bite.

There is plenty to attack the PC Party about, no need to start character assassinations.

Yup, on the news last night it looked like her comments rubbed a majority of people the wrong way. I'm not impressed either.