Trade deadline - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

JiriHrdina · 03-21-2012, 12:50 PM

Perhaps we should have more of these discussions where GMs review recent negotiations. Both GMs would have to be Ok with it of course but I think it helps establish player value and gives some visibility to how different GMs approach trading.

Knut · 03-21-2012, 12:56 PM

Agreed. I like to see where people value certain guys and I think it could help spur on some trading.

I can tell you right now that Patrick thinks that guys with Concussions are worth their weight in gold.

Swayze11 · 03-21-2012, 01:01 PM

I only have 1 guy out with a concussion now. All the rest are future hall of famers.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJK

Let's be clear, not once did I ask for Mietinen. I didn't want Mietinen at all and I would be doing you a favor taking that horrible contract off your hands. He is horrible and his contract stinks.

When you asked me if I was including a 1st with Pitkanen I almost chocked on my coffee.

again...just to be clear...in negotiations you asked me if I had a decent scoring forward/winger I could include in the deal. I offered up my 2nd leading scorer whom the sim loves and plays very well for my team.
I thought that deal for Jackman, Mietinen, $6M in cash was worth much more than Pitkanen...but as I mentioned that was just my opinion.

Jackman 86DF and 66OV and +3 on a bad Flames team, Mietinen 36G 30A for 66pts - 66OV + ~$6M in cash for Pitkanen who is 70OV 75DF and -18.

Knut · 03-21-2012, 01:05 PM

^ I do not think it needs a 1st added as Miettinen is basically back to Europe next year and having a horrible NHL year (8pts in 36 games). I would think at most a 2nd goes back the other way.

MJK · 03-21-2012, 01:30 PM

IMO Miettinen is a player with negative value. No way I add anything to those two guys because like I said, I would be doing Cheese a favor by taking him. I have a hard time believing that Miettinen carries any value at all.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 01:35 PM

If we use the NHL as a comparison then Pitkanen's value is squat as well. Hes been out most of the year with Brain and knee surgery.
I always look at CPHL value first, then NHL. I think many GMs have found that a player may be great in the NHL and not so much in the CPHL....and vice versa. Pitkanen is certainly not loved by the sim...regardless of OV, or MJK wouldnt be trying so hard to unload him. Mietenen meanwhile has had an outstanding year in the CPHL and Jackman is at minimum equal to Pitkanen and as noted above has played much better than Joni in the CPHL and NHL...and perhaps has risen above him at this point.
Regardless....I simply tossed the 1st out as bait and was told that was the end of negotiations. I dont love Pitkanen enough to offer 2 assets and 6M$$$ for a player surely on the way down.

MJK · 03-21-2012, 01:39 PM

Using your logic Sid the Kid's value must be squat as well....

Knut · 03-21-2012, 01:46 PM

Pitkanen was top 10 in icetime the two years previous to this season and it has been shown by all of Pat's roster that players more often than not come back from concussions and are successful.

Miettinens huge contract is a big handcuff and should be treated as negative value past this season (ok value this season due to CPHL performance). That is why i do not think much should be added.

dsavillian · 03-21-2012, 01:46 PM

I've still yet to grasp player values... mostly because it changes so dramatically from GM to GM.

This thread isn't helping

Swayze11 · 03-21-2012, 01:46 PM

^ Nope, no knee surgery for Sid.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJK

Using your logic Sid the Kid's value must be squat as well....

Well...depends what he is doing in the CPHL. I know that many GMs here have a hard on for these young players, but if they dont win you anything what is the true value outside of saying I have Sid on my team? I dont see comparables on the NYI...what I do see is a team with experience...and the SIM(s) LOVE experience. So to sum it up...I think Sid is a great NHL player. I havent paid attention to him in the CPHL because the Flames havent had the assets to attempt a trade for him.
I play the CPHL completely different from the NHL. I watch to see who is sim friendly first regardless of their NHL stats OR their age.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesla

Pitkanen was top 10 in icetime the two years previous to this season and it has been shown by all of Pat's roster that players more often than not come back from concussions and are successful.

Miettinens huge contract is a big handcuff and should be treated as negative value past this season (ok value this season due to CPHL performance). That is why i do not think much should be added.

Pitkanens RFA value next year will be 7M$ per.

MJK · 03-21-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Pitkanens RFA value next year will be 7M$ per.

If you believe this than his value must not be squat and you think he will retain his 70OV rating... You are contradicting yourself.

I personally think he will rerate down to a 67OV or so and I have the option of signing him there to a $4.5mill deal, still on a 2 way deal which is still miles better than Jackman's or Miettinen's contract.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJK

If you believe this than his value must not be squat and you think he will retain his 70OV rating... You are contradicting yourself.

I personally think he will rerate down to a 67OV or so and I have the option of signing him there to a $4.5mill deal, still on a 2 way deal which is still miles better than Jackman's or Miettinen's contract.

so....If you feel his value is going to drop so much next year why the big demands?

Knut · 03-21-2012, 02:06 PM

^ with the new SIM i have found that Sim Chemistry and Sim performers vary from season to season. Also, dealing for someone with good Sim Chemistry, does not mean they have it with yourself.

For example, Flambers had Doan and Antropov lighting up the league earlier this season, i dealt for both of them as a package and plopped them on the top line with Statsny. They dropped off a huge amount and Doan is gone, while Antropov is on my 3rd line.

Cheese · 03-21-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesla

^ with the new SIM i have found that Sim Chemistry and Sim performers vary from season to season. Also, dealing for someone with good Sim Chemistry, does not mean they have it with yourself.

For example, Flambers had Doan and Antropov lighting up the league earlier this season, i dealt for both of them as a package and plopped them on the top line with Statsny. They dropped off a huge amount and Doan is gone, while Antropov is on my 3rd line.

we havent had the same Sim or Sim version every year. The one constant is the Sim LOVES experience. It is up to the GM to find the right combo of experience and sim chemistry to win.
In the end...Pitkanen is not worth 2 decent players and 6M$$$, especially when the current GM believes his value will drop 3 points next year.

Knut · 03-21-2012, 02:33 PM

^ I agreed and thought a 2nd round would likely even it out. A 1st tilts it too much in your direction.

Mango · 03-21-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

The one constant is the Sim LOVES experience.

Just to add to that...I'm finding the SIM seems to really like a combination of experience and leadership. I've been checking a lot of the "hot" players in the league and they seem to have a steady combo of both.

MJK · 03-21-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

so....If you feel his value is going to drop so much next year why the big demands?

Cheese made a funny.