Alberta PC's way out front

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

it would be very interesting if the election did return a 34PC, 32WP, 10 Lib, 7 NDP Legislature

Personally I think that would be a mess. Imagine the Martin government from 2004 all over again. The premier jumping from issue to issue trying to keep everyone happy and throwing money at everything to avoid a confidence defeat.

Pretty sure the PC's are still going to win, I'd like to see them get a couple seats shy of a majority so they have to stay on their toes. Maybe they would move back toward being actual Conservatives again.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Pretty sure the PC's are still going to win, I'd like to see them get a couple seats shy of a majority so they have to stay on their toes. Maybe they would move back toward being actual Conservatives again.

I would be happy if the PC would move to fire Redford, only then could they truly revert back to being conservatives again. They'll still be corrupted, thought.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I dunno. We've done it three or four times before and managed alright.

Well the world has changed since the last time, to say the very least. I would suggest that government transitions are a more difficult thing today than they were forty years ago. In my industry things have changed enormously during that time, and frankly so have the challenges and knowledge required. I don't for a second think that anyone is irreplaceable; I just think that there is something to be said for experience and knowing how things work in general.

Originally Posted by Jacks

So you're officially backing the PC's now?

No, I still don't know. I have ruled out a couple of parties entirely, namely the Evergreens and NDP though. My business would suffer to an enormous extent if they had their wish of shutting down the oil sands.


[QUOTE=First Lady;3615089]Believe me, with my dismal campaign record, wishful thinking never enters the picture.
QUOTE]

You and me both!

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Well then do you propose that we return the corrupt Redford PC's to office because on top of being 'progressive' enough now for your liking they also are the only alternative that can run government in some semblance of smooth?

My point I made earlier in the thread is that the band aid needs to be ripped off and the PC removed so someone else can get that vital experience you speak of. Yeah, I'm willing to admit that anyone else running the province over the next few years will definately go through rough patches that the PC's likely wouldn't, but the point stands this needs to happen as soon as possible for the long-term health of the province.

I just picked your post to reply to, but I would think that this would sum up quite a few thoughts. Is it that smart to just change for the sake of change? We've seen that kind of thing at various times and not only in politics. Sometimes it works, but quite often its not the great panacea its made out to be.

Lets look at what we have here, and lets say that the Wildrose pulls this off. From a purely non-partisan and as uninvolved view, who do you select for cabinet positions? Very few if any of the people there have any real experience. Thats not a dig on anyone in particular, its just the fact of the matter; Hinman has been elected a few times, Rob Anderson, Heather Forsyth and Guy Boutillier. Danielle Smith has virtually no real experience, save for a failed term on the CBE. People like Link Byfield and Andrew whatever-his-name-is in Calgary West (who happens to be Rob Anders right hand man) aren't people I'd be thrilled about seeing in profile positions.

The reality is that most of the candidates are people who really have no experience at all. I've never voted PC, so its not an endorsement of their policies or track record at all, but I am impressed by some of the candidates that they've attraced. Donna Kennedy-Glans, Ric McIver, Wendelin Fraser, etc. Its a pretty compelling list of well known and well qualified people (again, not talking policies at all).


If you were in charge of hiring it would be really hard to pick 44 Wildrose (or any opposition members, realistically) who would really make sense to run the province. Even in my riding where I hate the idea of voting for someone who doesn't live there, the choice is between a partner at a law firm, a university student and a guy who has lived in Calgary for his whole life (not a lot more info at this point) and a couple of candidates I've eliminated because of their oil sands policy. Truthfully, who would you pick to vote on your behalf?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I would be happy if the PC would move to fire Redford, only then could they truly revert back to being conservatives again. They'll still be corrupted, thought.

If they lose majority, Redford will be history.

Originally Posted by Slava

Lets look at what we have here, and lets say that the Wildrose pulls this off. From a purely non-partisan and as uninvolved view, who do you select for cabinet positions? Very few if any of the people there have any real experience. Thats not a dig on anyone in particular, its just the fact of the matter; Hinman has been elected a few times, Rob Anderson, Heather Forsyth and Guy Boutillier. Danielle Smith has virtually no real experience, save for a failed term on the CBE. People like Link Byfield and Andrew whatever-his-name-is in Calgary West (who happens to be Rob Anders right hand man) aren't people I'd be thrilled about seeing in profile positions.

I haven't looked at every candidate but just because someone is lacking in political experience doesn't mean they are incompetant. If you get intelligent responsible people who have families and have run successful businesses I'm sure they can do a good job. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that they haven't been around for decades learning how to do things the way they are being done now. Maybe change doesn't have to be scary. People say that they hate politicians and the way the big government machine isn't working, nothing will never change if we keep voting in the same idiots.

As a side note I doubt seriously that the Wildrose will form government but 30 seats would be a good start.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

If they lose majority, Redford will be history.



I haven't looked at every candidate but just because someone is lacking in political experience doesn't mean they are incompetant. If you get intelligent responsible people who have families and have run successful businesses I'm sure they can do a good job. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that they haven't been around for decades learning how to do things the way they are being done now. Maybe change doesn't have to be scary. People say that they hate politicians and the way the big government machine isn't working, nothing will never change if we keep voting in the same idiots.

As a side note I doubt seriously that the Wildrose will form government but 30 seats would be a good start.

This is basically the expected response. I just differ with you here though. Its one thing to come from humble beginnings and get elected as an MLA. Its a whole other situation when you're looking at people to actually form government though. Perhaps a great example of this was Barb Higgins in the mayoralty campaign; most people would agree that had she run for Alderman that she would've won easily. She had no real experience for the job though and consequently (along with other issues) she was lambasted for that.

Change for the sake of change is what we're talking about here. Its a combination of no experience and then mixed with some PCs who jumped early because they didn't love Stelmach and what he was doing. Thats hardly a recipe for success.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is basically the expected response. I just differ with you here though. Its one thing to come from humble beginnings and get elected as an MLA. Its a whole other situation when you're looking at people to actually form government though. Perhaps a great example of this was Barb Higgins in the mayoralty campaign; most people would agree that had she run for Alderman that she would've won easily. She had no real experience for the job though and consequently (along with other issues) she was lambasted for that.

Change for the sake of change is what we're talking about here. Its a combination of no experience and then mixed with some PCs who jumped early because they didn't love Stelmach and what he was doing. Thats hardly a recipe for success.

I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this sentiment.

If someone has held a real job, some real life experience, or run a business, then they are likely supremely qualified compared to most of the career life politicians characterized by the PC's.

All they've learned is how to pull the most they can from the public teat and reap personal benefits from the public dole.

A change would likely lead to improved government, not worse.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this sentiment.

If someone has held a real job, some real life experience, or run a business, then they are likely supremely qualified compared to most of the career life politicians characterized by the PC's.

All they've learned is how to pull the most they can from the public teat and reap personal benefits from the public dole.

A change would likely lead to improved government, not worse.

Ever talked to some of these guys? I mean the good, hard working, well meaning politicians. I don't think its partisan to suggest that these guys work really hard, no matter which party. Don't bring up guys like Rob Anders, but seriously its not the cakewalk a lot of people think it is.

As far as basically anyone being qualified, take a shot yourself and draft some legislation. Its not just "we should do this". There are a lot of things to consider and a lot of issues. I don't think that just life experience is all thats needed here.

[Jacks]

Well by your argument there is nobody else capable of running this province except the current batch of Tories. I refuse to accept that.

Originally Posted by Slava

Perhaps a great example of this was Barb Higgins in the mayoralty campaign; most people would agree that had she run for Alderman that she would've won easily. She had no real experience for the job though and consequently (along with other issues) she was lambasted for that.

Not a great example, Nenshi didn't serve as an alderman first and most people are pretty happy with him. He's a perfect example of getting the old crony out and the new blood in actually.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Well by your argument there is nobody else capable of running this province except the current batch of Tories. I refuse to accept that.


Not a great example, Nenshi didn't serve as an alderman first and most people are pretty happy with him. He's a perfect example of getting the old crony out and the new blood in actually.

Sure, just point out some examples of WRA candidates with a background in public policy and we can start agreeing.

Have a look down the list of candidates nominated for the opposition parties and show me 44 who should be put in to form government. I'm not comfortable with them, but thats certainly no reason that you shouldn't be.

[Jacks]

Keep in mind that 1/3 - 1/2 of the PC candidates are going to be new also.

As for how good the Wildrose candidates are, I'll leave that to First Lady who knows 100% more than I do.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with this sentiment.

If someone has held a real job, some real life experience, or run a business, then they are likely supremely qualified compared to most of the career life politicians characterized by the PC's.

All they've learned is how to pull the most they can from the public teat and reap personal benefits from the public dole.

A change would likely lead to improved government, not worse.

You must be a pretty big fan of Redford relative to Smith then based upon her real life experience.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Keep in mind that 1/3 - 1/2 of the PC candidates are going to be new also.

As for how good the Wildrose candidates are, I'll leave that to First Lady who knows 100% more than I do.

Right, but again look at the quality of the candidates. I listed some of them above and frankly even as a PC voter I can't help but be impressed. Its one thing to say "real life experience" but its another to trot out former aldermen, business school deans and partners of big law firms IMO. Thats not a knock against the career paths of others (I'm not one of these three either), its just a realistic approach.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You must be a pretty big fan of Redford relative to Smith then based upon her real life experience.

Except that we've already seen what Redford is bringing to the party. She could easily pass as the leader of a Liberal party, some say she already is.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Except that we've already seen what Redford is bringing to the party. She could easily pass as the leader of a Liberal party, some say she already is.

Sweet, I'm voting PC!

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

former aldermen, business school deans and partners of big law firms

I know what you are saying but I don't think you need to be a career politician (alderman), teacher (dean) or lawyer to be qualified to be in government.

Not sure that it really matters anyway because the odds of the PC's losing government altogether are pretty slim. Even if the Wildrose did win a minority they would surely last less than a year before another election. If by some fluke 100-1 the Wildrose was to win a majority then they will probably make some mistakes due to inexperience. Not a horrible scary scenario. Not like the PC's haven't been bumbling from one issue and scandal to the next for the last 4 years.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Jacks

If they lose majority, Redford will be history.



I haven't looked at every candidate but just because someone is lacking in political experience doesn't mean they are incompetant. If you get intelligent responsible people who have families and have run successful businesses I'm sure they can do a good job. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that they haven't been around for decades learning how to do things the way they are being done now. Maybe change doesn't have to be scary. People say that they hate politicians and the way the big government machine isn't working, nothing will never change if we keep voting in the same idiots.

As a side note I doubt seriously that the Wildrose will form government but 30 seats would be a good start.

Would someone please explain to me why "have families" is even remotely applicable to being able to run for office? Popping out a couple kids and paying for child care is not at all useful experience for a political representative. (not downplaying parenting at all just to be clear - it's just not useful to rate political representation with)

The important part of the bolded sentence is "intelligent responsible". The rest of it matters not for candidate worthiness.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Jacks

The premier jumping from issue to issue trying to keep everyone happy and throwing money at everything to avoid a confidence defeat

The only difference between that and our current premier is the part about avoiding a confidence defeat.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Sweet, I'm voting PC!

I know you're joking around but I really wouldn't be surprised if lots of Liberal voters back the PC's this time to stop the evil Wildrose empire from destroying the province. Wouldn't be surprised if the Liberals get killed in this election actually.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by llama64

Would someone please explain to me why "have families" is even remotely applicable to being able to run for office?

Life experience. Knowing the concerns of families. Never hurts.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I know you're joking around but I really wouldn't be surprised if lots of Liberal voters back the PC's this time to stop the evil Wildrose empire from destroying the province. Wouldn't be surprised if the Liberals get killed in this election actually.

You're probably right. But I think deep down the Wildrose is just a loose alliance for pissed off farmers and pissed off Oil and Gas execs. Pissed off still about Stelmach's major decisions. I have my doubts about their long term viability. If either of those groups gets placated too again, which they will, what will the Wildrose party have to be pissed about?

I just hate general elections, or run up to general elections. It's their rhetoric is bad, now listen to our rhetoric and why it's good. I was at Wildrose event about a month ago. Smith was there speaking. She lambasted Redford and the PCs for suggesting that elections aren't the time to talk about issues. And in terms of getting roaring applause from the crowd it worked. But frankly elections aren't the time to talk about these things.