Arab League calls for an arab/UN peacekeeping force

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Azure

. That alone is reason enough to get the hell out.

Except that is never going to happen. It doesn't matter if you buy in the liberal institutionalist dogma about human rights, or even a realist framework about states acquiring more and spreading spheres of influence. States are always going to engage in adventureism within foreign states.

[Ozy_Flame]

I'm advocating the Arab League get boots on the ground. And Syria needs to be neutralized; not occupied. There is a sense of urgency to remove a government that is mass killing its own people directly with military force. Afghanistan is not like this in the slightest because the mission is different - root out terrorism. The Taliban may have been controlling, but as far as I am aware, never committed genocide or killed Afghans in the tens of thousands as Syria is approaching.

Libya is a great example of neutralizing a belligerent armed force and leaving immediately.

[tjinaz]

New world order. I am sure the world press will breathe easier now that those brutal, rampaging Americans are not involved.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russia...3#.T2e_d9XGAuL

Now Assad can be assured of more time in office and better ways for his troops to more efficiently "engage" this terrorist insurgency.

Hope this works out for everyone, glad it isn't America troops. Lets see how the world press spins this. Americans have put forth the effort for years and only gotten disdain for their efforts... lets see how they like the Russians.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Except that is never going to happen. It doesn't matter if you buy in the liberal institutionalist dogma about human rights, or even a realist framework about states acquiring more and spreading spheres of influence. States are always going to engage in adventureism within foreign states.

The US left Vietnam. Even if it took forever. But at some point they will realize the same crap is happening in Afghanistan, and until the PEOPLE want to actually fix things and stop living in the 12th century, nothing we do will help.

When the soldiers NATO trains to help NATO secure the country and defeat the Taliban start firing on NATO troops, something is seriously wrong. We just like to bury our head in the sand and ignore it because we think we're actually doing something good.

And then act so shocked when posters on CP say they don't give a flying rat's ass about Afghanistan anymore.

I used to honestly believe it was the right thing to help those people. Even after invading Iraq on false pretenses, I honestly believed it was better to stay there then to leave. But when Bush decided to start a new adventure, things went to hell fast. Now there is simply no point in trying anymore.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm advocating the Arab League get boots on the ground. And Syria needs to be neutralized; not occupied. There is a sense of urgency to remove a government that is mass killing its own people directly with military force. Afghanistan is not like this in the slightest because the mission is different - root out terrorism. The Taliban may have been controlling, but as far as I am aware, never committed genocide or killed Afghans in the tens of thousands as Syria is approaching.

Libya is a great example of neutralizing a belligerent armed force and leaving immediately.

Except you're dealing with a bigger problem here, especially now that Russia apparently has troops there.

I don't think they were sent there to out the government either. These are trained anti-terror groups that will help root out and kill civilians that are rebelling against the government.

[HPLovecraft]

The Russians landing troops in Syria (though it remains to be seen just how big the body is -- I's wager not very) certainly spices things up. A good way for Putin to distract his people from a rigged election, I suppose.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

New world order. I am sure the world press will breathe easier now that those brutal, rampaging Americans are not involved.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russia...3#.T2e_d9XGAuL

Now Assad can be assured of more time in office and better ways for his troops to more efficiently "engage" this terrorist insurgency.

Hope this works out for everyone, glad it isn't America troops. Lets see how the world press spins this. Americans have put forth the effort for years and only gotten disdain for their efforts... lets see how they like the Russians.

This shows the Russian commitment to their allies in Syria, maybe they bought in some of the more experienced troops that helped in Chechnya.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm advocating the Arab League get boots on the ground. And Syria needs to be neutralized; not occupied. There is a sense of urgency to remove a government that is mass killing its own people directly with military force. Afghanistan is not like this in the slightest because the mission is different - root out terrorism. The Taliban may have been controlling, but as far as I am aware, never committed genocide or killed Afghans in the tens of thousands as Syria is approaching.

Libya is a great example of neutralizing a belligerent armed force and leaving immediately.

I disagree with the bolded, in Eric Margolis book War at the top of the world, the book Canada in Afghanistan by Peter Pigot and some other books, The Taliban executed people at a pretty efficient rate, rumored to be in the thousands.

But since the Taliban was fairly sloppy in terms of paper work we'll never know the exact number.

The Taliban were every bit as blood thirsty as Syria's government, they just hid it behind religious righteousness.

[CaptainCrunch]

An article from 1998 on Taliban rule, probably not for the weak of stomach

http://home.mtholyoke.edu/~mvcarmac/women2.html

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You got the first part right, unfortunatly you then drew a typical conspiricy theorists wack job conclusion from basic human nature, media always simplifies things, especially US media, because the average US citizan couldn't point to the middle east on a map, let alone understand the intricacies of its religeon and politics, so the media simplifies it into a basic Good guy v Bad guy because that is all your fellow citizans want or can understand.

Okay......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ion-group.html

"Abdulhakim Belhadj, head of the Tripoli Military Council and the former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, "met with Free Syrian Army leaders in Istanbul and on the border with Turkey," said a military official working with Mr Belhadj. "Mustafa Abdul Jalil (the interim Libyan president) sent him there."

LIFG = terror group affiliated with Al Qaeda

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NB04Ak01.html

"When the over 160 monitors, after one month of enquiries, issued their report ... surprise! The report did not follow the official GCC line - which is that the "evil" Bashar al-Assad government is indiscriminately, and unilaterally, killing its own people, and so regime change is in order."


The Arab League's Ministerial Committee had approved the report, with four votes in favor (Algeria, Egypt, Sudan and GCC member Oman) and only one against; guess who, Qatar - which is now presiding the Arab League because the emirate bought their (rotating) turn from the Palestinian Authority.

"So the report was either ignored (by Western corporate media) or mercilessly destroyed - by Arab media, virtually all of it financed by either the House of Saud or Qatar. It was not even discussed - because it was prevented by the GCC from being translated from Arabic into English and published in the Arab League's website."

"The report is adamant. There was no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government against peaceful protesters. Instead, the report points to shady armed gangs as responsible for hundreds of deaths among Syrian civilians, and over one thousand among the Syrian army, using lethal tactics such as bombing of civilian buses, bombing of trains carrying diesel oil, bombing of police buses and bombing of bridges and pipelines."

"The Syrian National Council is essentially a Muslim Brotherhood outfit affiliated with both the House of Saud and Qatar - with an uneasy Israel quietly supporting it in the background. Legitimacy is not exactly its cup of green tea. As for the Free Syrian Army, it does have its defectors, and well-meaning opponents of the Assad regime, but most of all is infested with these foreign mercenaries weaponized by the GCC, especially Salafist gangs."

[mikey_the_redneck]

...and more


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...aggerated.html

"Initially, the report noted general cooperation by the Syrian government:

The Mission [i.e. the Arab League investigative team] noted that the Government strived to help it succeed in its task and remove any barriers that might stand in its way. The Government also facilitated meetings with all parties. No restrictions were placed on the movement of the Mission and its ability to interview Syrian citizens, both those who opposed the Government and those loyal to it.

The report noted that the media has greatly exaggerated the amount of violence in Syria:

The Mission noted that many parties falsely reported that explosions or violence had occurred in several locations. When the observers went to those locations, they found that those reports were unfounded.
The Mission also noted that, according to its teams in the field, the media exaggerated the nature of the incidents and the number of persons killed in incidents and protests in certain towns."


While the government has not withdrawn all of its forces, the military has withdrawn from many areas:

Based on the reports of the field-team leaders and the meeting held on 17 January 2012 with all team leaders, the Mission confirmed that all military vehicles, tanks and heavy weapons had been withdrawn from cities and residential neighbourhoods. Although there are still some security measures in place in the form of earthen berms and barriers in front of important buildings and in squares, they do not affect citizens.

Perhaps most importantly, the report notes that the Syrian people do not want foreign intervention:

However, the citizens believe the crisis should be resolved peacefully through Arab
mediation alone, without international intervention. Doing so would allow them to live in peace and complete the reform process and bring about the change they desire."


Well ......THAT doesn't follow western narrative now does it??

[mikey_the_redneck]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...an-rebels.html

"At the meeting, which was held in Istanbul and included Turkish officials, the Syrians requested "assistance" from the Libyan representatives and were offered arms, and potentially volunteers.
"There is something being planned to send weapons and even Libyan fighters to Syria," said a Libyan source, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There is a military intervention on the way. Within a few weeks you will see."

The Telegraph has also learned that preliminary discussions about arms supplies took place when members of the Syrian National Council [SNC] – the country's main opposition movement – visited Libya earlier this month."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=29765

-Prof. Chossudovsky

"There’s ample evidence from official statements, from the Arab League observer mission, from the Israeli media, that there are terrorist organizations involved in killing civilians and this, in a very cynical mode, provides the justification for the so-called international community to blame Bashar al-Assad when in fact these civilian casualties were ordered by foreign forces.

It is what is called in intelligence parlance and I quote from the Pentagon, “a mass civilian casualty event” which “creates a useful wave of indignation”.

This last wave of killings is the result of armed gunmen, terrorists, mercenaries and in a very casual way it is then blamed on the Syrian government. I am not suggesting that the Syrian government doesn’t bear responsibility in this matter, but we must understand what are the underlying causes of this so-called protest movement.

We have Special Forces from Qatar; from Britain; from the US; from France, on the ground. And I quote from British military sources. The MI6, CIA, SAS and what are they doing? They’re training members of the Free Syrian Army."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=29715

"The United Nations Security Council held on Monday a session to discuss the situation in the Middle East in the framework of the attempts of some Arab states backed by the west to internationalize the crisis in Syria and ignore what is happening in the occupied Palestinian territories.
Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, stressed in a speech at the UNSC that the Syrian Government is confronting armed gangs and al-Qaeda members who committed horrible crimes in Syria, adding that violence should stop and humanitarian aid should be offered to civilians."

[tjinaz]

So this is the first battlefield of the new cold war. Russians supporting their allies and the west theirs.

[nik-]

except this cold war would be over if we offered money to Russia for all of their weapons.

[tjinaz]

I was just thinking that. No longer ideology it is straight power and money.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not sure what that is even supposed to mean. American Special Forces troops have blended in throughout the Middle East for the better part of a decade.

I was being a tad facetious none the less there is a huge difference between sniping in the mountains of rural Afghanistan in a gilley suit as part of a larger force and trying to infiltrate downtown Damascus without the benefit of drone or air support and in a civilian population that is in no way united against Assad.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I was being a tad facetious none the less there is a huge difference between sniping in the mountains of rural Afghanistan in a gilley suit as part of a larger force and trying to infiltrate downtown Damascus without the benefit of drone or air support and in a civilian population that is in no way united against Assad.

You do realize of course that they infiltrated Iraq at the beginning of the war and lasered the targets? I have a feeling they have no problem blending in.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize of course that they infiltrated Iraq at the beginning of the war and lasered the targets? I have a feeling they have no problem blending in.

and i am pretty sure there may be one or to special forces soldiers of middle eastern heritage

[Frequitude]

GeneralCrunch's military strategy and history lessons are the best thing going on CP these days.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize of course that they infiltrated Iraq at the beginning of the war and lasered the targets? I have a feeling they have no problem blending in.

From an intelligence gathering side I'm sure that you could effectively use special forces units to pin point unit locations and strengths and laze strategic targets.

Getting close to Syria's leadership in downtown Damascus is a whole different story even for a special forces unit like the Seals, but more then likely Army Green Berets.