Immigrants costing taxpayers $16 to $23 Billion annually.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I haven't stated we need to return to a gold standard. Only what has occurred since it was abandonned.

And the likelihood of politicians being "accountable and fiscally responsible" is about -273 Celsius...

I know what you mean, but I don't think it was ever really demanded that politicians be accountable. The baby boomers loved it when they were promised a bunch of 'stuff' if you voted for this candidate.

These days I would tend to think that my generation is a bit more aware of accountability and fiscal responsibility. Hopefully that translates into candidates that have the same viewpoint being put into office.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Really? No one else is going to point out the delicious irony in pointing to two extremely right-wing, capitalist failed countries as evidence of failed socialism?

I think Rerun's political and economic acumen was summed up perfectly in that post.

Damn that Berlusconi and his socialist policies!

OK then. If Italy and Greece are two "extremely right-wing" countries I think this conversation is over.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

OK then. If Italy and Greece are two "extremely right-wing" countries I think this conversation is over.

Really, you're trying to tell me that Berlusconi was a socialist? Extreme might be taking it too far depending on your definition of extreme, but both Greece and Italy were certainly on the right side of the political spectrum, especially economically when their economies began to crumble.

EDIT: For that matter, Ireland too. How is this even debatable?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Even better than the USA, consider the true libertarian paradise of Somalia! Imagine a place where there is absolutely ZERO government interference, taxation, or regulations of any kind. In the total absence of wealth redistribution via taxation, ineffecient and failing state-funded entitlement programs, and crippling government regulations that stifle innovation, the Invisible Hand of the Free Market (TM) has turned Somalia into an economic powerhouse.

Only if you move to etatist paradise of North Korea that wouldn't let the Evil Invisible Finger of the Free Market Let Alone the Invisible Hand (TM) to interfere with the all-embracing ever-loving State.

Deal?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Really, you're trying to tell me that Berlusconi was a socialist? Extreme might be taking it too far depending on your definition of extreme, but both Greece and Italy were certainly on the right side of the political spectrum, especially economically when their economies began to crumble.

EDIT: For that matter, Ireland too. How is this even debatable?

This.

In Europe, the right still sees the advantage of their ideology in troubled times: it is confident, while the left is insecure.

That’s been the case for some time now. Voters have put the centre-right parties into power across most of the continent, perhaps because they figure that austerity measures are going to be necessary anyway and they think the right will be more competent in carrying them out.

Spain elected a right-wing government a few months ago.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Really, you're trying to tell me that Berlusconi was a socialist? Extreme might be taking it too far depending on your definition of extreme, but both Greece and Italy were certainly on the right side of the political spectrum, especially economically when their economies began to crumble.

EDIT: For that matter, Ireland too. How is this even debatable?

I think you and GirlySports are mixing up leaders and parties with decades old tendencies.

Do you think Canada is an extreme right wing country just because Harper is leading it right now?

When I look at Greece and its average retirement age of about 53, and the extremely high percentage of government employees per capita, I don't see a right wing country... not in the least.

Now, back to beer and Irish music.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

How well are Norway, Sweden, and Finland doing these days?

I'm not being snarky, btw. Those countries are often considered the poster children of high taxation/high spending Western socialist democracies, so I'm curious to know how well they've done in the recent global economic crisis.

Quite well, Norway especially which has its oil money to help them out, they've barely felt the global crisis.

Its interesting how often I hear from conservatives that socialism is a failed experiment, so we need to follow the US lower taxes, less regulation, etc.. Boy come to EU and live in places like Germany, France, or any of the Nordic nations, minus Iceland we're still kinda pooched.

I think people just don't get how nice it is to live in EU, minus a few countries. The benefits you get with slightly higher taxes is enormous, powerful and practical unions (maybe minus France) help people out here live top quality lives with excellent benefits, healthcare, education, road systems, etc..

They do almost everything better than the US, all so a few % of the US populace can be super rich, while the middle class in the US would envy the middle class lifestyle of the EU nations. Mind you your house would be smaller, your car would be more efficient, but you have way more vacation pay, your wife can stay home for a year with her newborn baby, you get to actually life a good life without being shackled by too much or too little government.

And by the way, Canada is much much closer to a socialist EU nation than it is to the US, so I find it very interesting Canadians want to mock the EU when you have so much in common with them.

[Tinordi]

Horrible thread is horrible.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Taxing me less will mean I have more $$ in my bank account, thereby allowing me to travel, eat well, visit cultural landmarks, and oggle pretty women.

More taxes, which go towards the support of failed programs, will in fact only prevent me from doing these things. ... which is why, unlike you, I don't vote NDP or Liberal.

The world really is simple isn't it?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I think you and GirlySports are mixing up leaders and parties with decades old tendencies.

Do you think Canada is an extreme right wing country just because Harper is leading it right now?

When I look at Greece and its average retirement age of about 53, and the extremely high percentage of government employees per capita, I don't see a right wing country... not in the least.

Now, back to beer and Irish music.

No, but I would say we have elected a right-wing government. You also have to remember that political spectrums vary from country to country. Having studied Berlusconi's policies and knowing his own history, I definitely say he ran a right-wing government. Also, Italy is still a very conservative country outside of the major urban centres.

I'll admit to not knowing as much about Greece as I do Italy, but I would still say they elected a right-wing government compared to what is considered left in Greece.

I already agreed that "extreme" was a tad hyperbolic, but I think my original point still stands. Using examples of two of the most non-socialist governments in Europe as proof that socialism has failed is going full ######.

P.S. you should see my awesome green tuxedo t-shirt and green top-hat.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This.

In Europe, the right still sees the advantage of their ideology in troubled times: it is confident, while the left is insecure.

That’s been the case for some time now. Voters have put the centre-right parties into power across most of the continent, perhaps because they figure that austerity measures are going to be necessary anyway and they think the right will be more competent in carrying them out.

Spain elected a right-wing government a few months ago.

No European country elected a right-wing (economically, socially) government since Margaret Thatcher.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

No European country elected a right-wing (economically, socially) government since Margaret Thatcher.

as rubecube said, it's relative..for THEM it's right-wing.

For example the US has elected a left-wing government that isn't even as left as the Canadian conservatives.

[Ben_in_Canada]

I arrived on a Thursday, got my SIN on the Friday started work and paying taxes on the Monday.
I'm good with you guys right???

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

I arrived on a Thursday, got my SIN on the Friday started work and paying taxes on the Monday.
I'm good with you guys right???

Lets look at the checklist

WASP (I presume) +1
Funny accent -1
Took our jerbs -1
Not on welfare/paying taxes +1
Total 0

Hmmm you're ok, still got some stuff to work on though.

[GP_Matt]

I am suspicious about what you were doing on the weekend. Probably driving around on roads even though you hadn't paid taxes yet.
If you took your kids to the pool you should probably leave the country before the mob shows up.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Lets look at the checklist

WASP (I presume) +1
Correct.
Funny accent -1
hmmmm, the ladies like it so jury is out on this
Took our jerbs -1
This is the key isn't it, I was only able to come here because the company couldn't fill the position with a Canadian.
Not on welfare/paying taxes +1
Play hockey & drink beer, that has to be worth a couple of points
Total ?

Hmmm you're ok, still got some stuff to work on though.

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I am suspicious about what you were doing on the weekend. Probably driving around on roads even though you hadn't paid taxes yet.
If you took your kids to the pool you should probably leave the country before the mob shows up.

Spent the weekend learning how to get around the city, also stayed at the T&C on 17th (still pissed no one gave me a heads up about that )
Wife & child took near two years to get visas for them to join me.

[burn_this_city]

That's brutal, I'm surprised it took so long to get your family over here. If I was ever to get a job abroad I would insist on getting them over there immediately.

[Azure]

Bringing your wife and kids over shouldn't be that hard. If you have the ability to get a relatively good job, it should be done immediately.

At least our immigration policies are being looked at. Even if they fail at certain things, at least we're talking about them instead of burying our head in the sand like the NDP would with other social services.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Azure

Bringing your wife and kids over shouldn't be that hard. If you have the ability to get a relatively good job, it should be done immediately.

At least our immigration policies are being looked at. Even if they fail at certain things, at least we're talking about them instead of burying our head in the sand like the NDP would with other social services.

NDP would just let everyone in. Grandma, uncles, brother, cousins, mistress, 4th wife...

EVERYONE IN and instantly be a doctor with no english.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

NDP would just let everyone in. Grandma, uncles, brother, cousins, mistress, 4th wife...

EVERYONE IN and instantly be a doctor with no english.

With immigration yes, with OAS they would continue with the status quo. With Healthcare they would throw more money at it.

More or less burying their head in the sand and actually looking at the problem for what it is and trying to at least propose a solution.