Sven "Fricken" Bartschi!

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The touchy nerve is you saying stupid things and then not backing them up.

Regression (after one year)?
Not a slump, that's a bust?

Those things just don't make sense.


I have no idea if you overrated Backlund or not, maybe you did maybe you didn't.

However, ssaying a 22 year old picked 24th overall is a bust because he isn't a top line player currently suggests that you might have.


He doesn't have to "light it up" he has to continue to make improvements in his game and get better.

If he puts up 15 -20 goals and 35-45 points next year I'll be very happy. His two-way game is impressive already for a kid his age.

edit: to further not derail this Sven thread I've taken to PM. Carry on.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think I quite understand this. Ar you actually suggesting that the Flames would be better off keeping Baertschi in the lineup because he is aging??? Unreal.

Were all aging. We will (by CBA rule or 50 contracts) be missing out on a player who has shown thus far he would be an asset for this post season.



It is not just that it will cost more money one season sooner, it is that it will cost a lot more money in a year in which Baertschi will likely be producing at a higher rate than he is now. You are basically sacrificing a full year of a 22-year-old player with two full year's NHL experience for a few games of a 19-year-old player with none. How can you think that this is a good trade-off?

I am aware, I have no issue paying a top player more, even earlier for longer. Its about where this team is now and where it's heading.


Some of us are thinking about the health of this franchise beyond the next two weeks or a month, and Baertschi is very much a big part of that future. I understand that you crave immediate returns, but patient investment usually results in a much higher yield in the future. This is what the Flames are doing: Planning long-term and factoring Baertschi into that plan.

I appreciate that, but when Iggy and Kipper are gone then what? This team needed Sven 10 years ago, agreed. But we have him now and to coddle him in slowly (when he's shown immediate returns), makes no sense when our other 2 franchise players are nearing their twilight.

You make it sound as though Baertschi's skills are suddenly going to dry up as a result of playing in the WHL playoffs. Waste? There is nothing "wasted" here. He is not suddenly going to start running down or diminishing over the summer. Relax.

No no, he will tear up the WHL playoffs - I'm sure. It's a waste as he coulda/shoulda/woulda been a force for us down the stretch and into our post-season.

Shame on you for setting your expectations for young players and for the franchise so outrageously high that as soon as someone falters, they are suddenly disposable.

Backlund imo hasn't faltered as he has never actually launched yet. We all want Backs to produce and be prominent. I just havent seen anything yet to even give me a glimpse of hope...Sven? 4 games in, I have hope, that would be a falter.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

edit: to further not derail this Sven thread I've taken to PM. Carry on.

Don't private message me about hockey talk.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

Wow. Apparently Backlund is a very touchy nerve around these parts.

I'm not the one who over rated Backlund and expected him to produce as a top line centre, that was the the Calgary Flames coaching staff (heard many times on the radio). He was projected to play 1st line centre minutes and produce at that level and he's had 4 goals this year (thereabouts).

If he comes back next year and lights it up then sure, come back and call me stupid. But he's on the fast track to being moved out of Calgary as a reclamation project. Resort to name calling if it makes you feel better.

I just don't understand this perspective. Have you forgotten that this is Backlund's second full season in the NHL and it has been an injury ravaged one at that? Do you recall that he played in the Youngstars pre-season tournament? This isn't a veteran we're talking about. He's not Gilbert Brule yet... let's see what he can do with a healthy season and a more offensive role.

He's a late first round pick that has shown some very good things in fits and starts, then followed it up with unimpressive bouts. Even during the course of this disappointing season, the coaches have challenged him with more difficult minutes/opposition.

Personally, I'm excited to see what a Baertschi-Backlund-Cammalleri line can do next season.

Baertschi: He's awesome. So excited to see how his career plays out. He's got star written all over him. The swagger to believe he can excel combined with the humility to know that he still has much to learn... most exciting Flames prospect in ages.

[You Need a Thneed]

How anyone could look at Backlund and call him a bust, or even trending to be a bust at this point is incomprehensible. He's 22, in his second year (and only played half a year this season), and has shown himself to at least be quite good defensively. Even if his offensive game doesn't ever reach top six levels, he's still FAR from being a bust. However, there's no reason to believe that his offensive game will never pick up. It might never, but MANY MANY players take a couple of years to pick up their offensive game in this league, especially players who start at 20 or 21.

There is no reason AT ALL to give up on Backlund yet, and certainly not "Waive him" so that a team can pick him up, so that we can let our 19 year old 1st round draft pick play a couple of extra games (which he won't be able to do anyway)

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who is saying these things? Backlund is in his second full NHL season, which he started six weeks late and amid a pretty bad slump for the team. I understand that in your world you expect ruthlessly immediate results, but in the real world there are circumstances in which those results are delayed. Backlund has had a bad year, and I don't think that anyone is disputing that. But it is one bad year for a 22-year-old second year player. It is absolutely not time to pull the chute, and anyone who suggests that Backlund is approaching his NHL expiration date simply has no idea what they are talking about.

Well I said outside of Cp, but Andrew Walker is actually a member here too. You can see, hear and sense it in the local media, they aren't coming at him with pitchforks, but the rose colored glasses have come off, they arent protecting him like in the past. Patty on OT is certainly not guarding him like he used to.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Personally, I'm excited to see what a Baertschi-Backlund-Cammalleri line can do next season..

This is kind of silly of me, because of the playoff race we are in now... but if we do make the playoffs next season could be fun and interesting.

Can Matt Stajan continue his improved play?
What will Cammalleri get with a full season in Calgary?
What kind of impact will the young players have, and how many will be on the team? (Horak, Baerschi, Nemisz, Brodie, Irving, Buoma)

Tanguay - Stajan - Iginla
Glencross - Jokinen - Moss
Baerschi - Backlund - Cammaleri
Nemisz - Horak - Kospotolous
extra - Buoma, Jones, Jackman

If they don't make it though... BLOW IT UP!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Well I said outside of Cp, but Andrew Walker is actually a member here too. You can see, hear and sense it in the local media, they aren't coming at him with pitchforks, but the rose colored glasses have come off, they arent protecting him like in the past. Patty on OT is certainly not guarding him like he used to.

That speaks more to the stupidity of Calgary sports media then anything.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

This is kind of silly of me, because of the playoff race we are in now... but if we do make the playoffs next season could be fun and interesting.

Can Matt Stajan continue his improved play?
What will Cammalleri get with a full season in Calgary?
What kind of impact will the young players have, and how many will be on the team? (Horak, Baerschi, Nemisz, Brodie, Irving, Buoma)

Tanguay - Stajan - Iginla
Glencross - Jokinen - Moss
Baerschi - Backlund - Cammaleri
Nemisz - Horak - Kospotolous
extra - Buoma, Jones, Jackman

If they don't make it though... BLOW IT UP!

If nothing else, this season has given me a ton of optimism that we can lose half a lineup and still maintain the same competitiveness. Really shows how young players (Horak, Nemisz, Bouma, Sven) are pushing for spots, Irving is the best option for backup (or even a short term from starter) I've seen since in 8 years and Brodie is giving me the first sense of optimism on our blueline since the Phaneuf deal. Some minor deals Feaster has pulled (i.e. Smith, Jones) seem to set the Flames up nicely for the next 2-3 years.

Even if we miss the playoffs, it feels pretty good right now. I feel a lot better now then those 2007-2009 years where we had ton of talent, but a country club mentality and I knew we were going no where. I'm actually seeing some direction now.

[MrMastodonFarm]

We need youth on the bottom lines pushing the vets on the top lines, we've needed it for years.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Well I said outside of Cp, but Andrew Walker is actually a member here too. You can see, hear and sense it in the local media, they aren't coming at him with pitchforks, but the rose colored glasses have come off, they arent protecting him like in the past. Patty on OT is certainly not guarding him like he used to.

Andrew Walker wrote a ridiculously short-sighted opinion piece about Backlund, and I am fairly certain that his alarmism does not reflect the regard of those that matter in NHL management.

You can "sense it" in the local media? What on earth are you talking about? All first-year rookies are afforded a lot of grace by the media, and for good reason. The fact that the media is more critical of Backlund's play now is more symptomatic of his second-year status, and in no way is it indicative that observers are losing patience with him.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Tanguay - Stajan - Iginla
Glencross - Jokinen - Moss
Baerschi - Backlund - Cammaleri
Nemisz - Horak - Kospotolous
extra - Buoma, Jones, Jackman

My only concern about this is that we are counting on Stajan to be effective much like we were counting on Backlund and Morrison coming into this season.

Looking at the number of extras who belong in the NHL, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Calgary went for a quantity for quality trade at the draft.

[Bingo]

I think with players like Backlund (2007 draft, 22 or 23) you have to be careful not to jump to either extreme.

That is ... he's going to be a star or that he's a bust.

If you look at his games played compared to his draft year he's coming along about where you'd think a bottom half first rounder should; finding his way. He's played bigger than I thought, he's played better defensively than I expected, the offence hasn't come.

Will it?

Don't know, but I do hope the Flames management and coaching staff are applying a little less emotion than some on here in assessing his development and chances to improve going forward.

He has a lot of the tools to be a very solid top 9 forward in the NHL, jury is out on top six.

I don't have a problem with that.

(he may play very well with Baertschi to be honest)

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by Bingo

(he may play very well with Baertschi to be honest)

... I suppose every Eric Lindros needs a Mikeal Reneberg..

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think with players like Backlund (2007 draft, 22 or 23) you have to be careful not to jump to either extreme.

That is ... he's going to be a star or that he's a bust.

If you look at his games played compared to his draft year he's coming along about where you'd think a bottom half first rounder should; finding his way. He's played bigger than I thought, he's played better defensively than I expected, the offence hasn't come.

Will it?

Don't know, but I do hope the Flames management and coaching staff are applying a little less emotion than some on here in assessing his development and chances to improve going forward.

He has a lot of the tools to be a very solid top 9 forward in the NHL, jury is out on top six.

I don't have a problem with that.

(he may play very well with Baertschi to be honest)

Agreed, good post. People get way to impatient with the development of young players. Most players dont make an impact in the NHL until theyre 24-25. The fact that there are players in the league under 23 making large impacts are anomalies. Special talents that are a combination of incredible work ethic and God-given ability. But most players who were offensive contributors at lower levels take a few years to find their scoring touch in the NHL.

Backlund works his tail off, is responsible in his own zone, finishes his checks and every so often shows some great skill to score a goal. Now that his defensive side of the game is tightening up I can see him start to put up some decent numbers. I feel the same way about Horak, him being 2 years younger is just a bonus.

I'd like to see a line of Horak-Backlund-Baertschi next year. Not sure who would play center between Horak and Backlund (probably Backlund) but having two centermen on the same line isn't necessarily a bad thing. I could see that line doing well as a third scoring line that can play against other teams weaker competition and put up some points.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Backlund imo hasn't faltered as he has never actually launched yet. We all want Backs to produce and be prominent. I just havent seen anything yet to even give me a glimpse of hope...Sven? 4 games in, I have hope, that would be a falter.

Besides the situation being completely impossible, if Backlund is as terrible as you describe, who's going to pick him up on waivers???

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by fotze

One of the Flames' shortcomings along with pisspoor drafting is pisspoor patience in developing. Quite a few players have been cast off to become good NHLers after they leave here.

100% correct, Detroit drafts plugs and turns them into superstars, Calgary drafts plugs and destroys their potential careers.

Proof?
Zetterberg, Backlund.

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

100% correct, Detroit drafts plugs and turns them into superstars, Calgary drafts plugs and destroys their potential careers.

Proof?
Zetterberg, Backlund.

Proof?

FYI, Zetterberg and Backlund are NOT clones, hence this comparison is ####e.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

100% correct, Detroit drafts plugs and turns them into superstars, Calgary drafts plugs and destroys their potential careers.

Proof?
Zetterberg, Backlund.

You think Backlund's potential has been destroyed?

I think some perspective is required...most NHL player's don't hit their stride until they are in their mid twenties...and that includes most first rounders.

It takes a special player to have the huge impacts at 18, 19, 20 and they are special for a reason.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Proof?

FYI, Zetterberg and Backlund are NOT clones, hence this comparison is ####e.

maybe, that's fine, but I think you understand my point and if you think CGY's development is not part of the problem, you are delusional.