U.S. Army Sergeant goes on a 16 person killing spree

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by driveway

Awful, terrible, no-good, very bad idea. Israel represents a potential example of sanity and prosperity in the region. The route to a stable middle east has to include the Islamic nations recognizing the right of Israel to exist as well as those muslims who live within the borders of Israel recognizing that same right.

It also requires Israel to provide equal opportunity to the Muslims living within its borders, obviously, and most likely the recognition of a Palestinian state, but those goals can't be reached without the 'big stick' of NATO backing up Israel.

I think that peace in the region is more likely without US interference.

[CaptainCrunch]

I disagree, you'll have a differnt type of violence, but it will still be violence and a powder keg as all of the different subsets of Islam and various other religions decide that without the American's there as a common enemy that its time for a good old fashion clensing.

I think its easy to blame the American's for everything bad in the world and granted they are the architechs of stupid moves at times, but the tribe against tribe and sect against sect violence has been happening there forever

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

They're not "the Afghans." They're 16 people that have had their lives irrevocably changed. They aren't soldiers or insurgents or government agents, they're regular people. To not feel any sort of sympathy for regular people struck with tragedy like this is just a symptom of the desensitization we in the West seem to have when people "over there" die in droves.

I agree. Not saying it's right, just that I don't care about "them"...

[FlamesAddiction]

Not that it makes it any more acceptable, but this is precisely what happens in every war.

It's really sad that years of trying to win the hearts of the people is going to be undone by this act and other terrible acts that have happened recently. It doesn't matter if 99+% of the NATO soldiers there sincerely want to help and are willing to sacrifice for it... this is what will be remembered.

I have to wonder if when all is said and done, if we will be remembered in Aghanistan as being worse than the Soviets. I'm not saying that we have done a worse job, but in the information age, these sort of things are going to get immortalized and kept fresh for a long time. It will serve to be anti-Western propaganda for decades.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not that it makes it any more acceptable, but this is precisely what happens in every war.

It's really sad that years of trying to win the hearts of the people is going to be undone by this act and other terrible acts that have happened recently. It doesn't matter if 99+% of the NATO soldiers there sincerely want to help and are willing to sacrifice for it... this is what will be remembered.

I have to wonder if when all is said and done, if we will be remembered in Aghanistan as being worse than the Soviets. I'm not saying that we have done a worse job, but in the information age, these sort of things are going to get immortalized and kept fresh for a long time. It will serve to be anti-Western propaganda for decades.

The problem the americans have always had is their constant attempt to fight a clean war, which of course means when these things happen, as they always do in every war, it really pisses the locals and the folks back home off more.
Better to just be honest, say we are going to eff you up as much as we want until you do as you are told, go in and eff things up, get what we want and then leave.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So you would be ok with a Canadian facing a flogging in a Asian country for spitting gum on the sidewalk (Think its the Phillapines), or a Canadian facing life in prison for carrying an ounce of drugs in the same country?

Also, its not like the Afghan system of justice is not corrupt and is religious based and not based on a common rule of law.

Plus it doesn't sound like Islamic courts recognize mental illness as a defence, what if this guy is certifiable or suffering from PTS?

This tune is starkly different to the one you whistled about Marc Emery.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I'd argue the the US presence there does more to worsen the situation than it does to lessen it.

Stop supporting Israel, and get out of the area completely.

I wonder why you would want them to stop supporting Israel, the country that seems to treat people better than anyone else in the region? Do you know what other countries are supported by the US? Russia, Senegal, Mexico and Colombia combined receive more than Israel, give or take. There are many many countries receiving aid. The difference is that Israel spends nearly all of the aid in the US, on military items. If enough nations made peace with Israel, basically like Egypt and Jordan, Israel can decrease aid and another country can start receiving it. No peace, no aid. It is fairly good leverage, except when other nations (back in the day Russia) would back Israel's enemies.

The other theory is that whatever Israel spends on the military, it is paid back tenfold in how Israel gives back their technology, information and provides the US a tactical strike point.

Complaining about Israel foreign aid, considering how much the US provides to other middle eastern countries, is tiresome and a bad argument, usually with bad undertones. The popular reason people want removed aid to Israel is because they think the so called friendly neighbors can gang up and destroy Israel. If anyone thinks for a second countries hate the US because they support Israel is simply wrong. These countries have enough hate this is a non issue. Look how well Syria is doing right now, murdering their own citizens. Blaming Israel is a poor argument, considering the bad these nations have done to their own people and their own neighbors. Muslims blow up a mosque? Bad. Americans burn Korans? Death to pretty much anything. There is something wrong, and it is not Israel.

Because governments have ritualized hatred of Israel does not make it right to cut off aid nor will it make the problems in some of these countries go away. Aid is simply an item that exists, remove that and another excuse is made up to justify the evils of democracy and the West and against their own people.

[puckluck]

We have a post stating that they do not care about Afghans being murdered, yet the Israel post is being replied to the most.

Hilarious.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I wonder why you would want them to stop supporting Israel, the country that seems to treat people better than anyone else in the region?

Israel treats people well? LOL, they might be the biggest bullies in the area.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I agree. Not saying it's right, just that I don't care about "them"...

Me neither. And quite frankly, if they can get SO pissed off over a Koran burning, there is no reason to stay there.

Bring our boys home.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Israel treats people well? LOL, they might be the biggest bullies in the area.

There are also a thriving democracy where all kinds of people live for the most part in peace.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Israel treats people well? LOL, they might be the biggest bullies in the area.

Ahhh, now I get it. Israel is the biggest bully in the area, not any of the other countries that shoot their own citizens? You really feel this is true? You say this while Syria shoots their own people. What do these other countries have in common? Egypt, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, etc? But to you Israel is worse, based on what?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by puckluck

We have a post stating that they do not care about Afghans being murdered, yet the Israel post is being replied to the most.

Hilarious.

Yah funny, the thread was not about Israel, but as always someone is going to somehow compare something to Israel and how they are worse. What a joke, and you know it. My post had nothing to do with someone not caring about Afghans. Should we now close CalgaryPuck since someone made that post?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I agree. Not saying it's right, just that I don't care about "them"...

So I guess the fear-mongering of the past decade has totally worked on you. Good job eating what gets spoon-fed to you by media outlets such as Fox News.

It's funny that people like you talk like you have so much backbone and about how you're "being honest"...well your honesty shows me one thing for sure -- you are an incredibly weak and spineless person. Takes a lot more strength to find common ground with people than it does to thump your chest and remain ignorant and hateful.

I feel sorry for you.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I agree. Not saying it's right, just that I don't care about "them"...

WTF?

Incidentally, I spent a month travelling in Afghanistan in 2007 and was treated by the vast majority of people with tremendous hospitality, warmth and humour.

Yet another tragedy for a place that has suffered far more than its fair share of tragedies over the last 40 years.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by puckluck

We have a post stating that they do not care about Afghans being murdered, yet the Israel post is being replied to the most.

Hilarious.

Discrimination and general hatred towards Muslims has become somewhat acceptable in the US. The attitude may be bleeding across the border into Canada.

If I were a Muslim I'd be very uncomfortable in the US.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Ahhh, now I get it. Israel is the biggest bully in the area, not any of the other countries that shoot their own citizens? You really feel this is true? You say this while Syria shoots their own people. What do these other countries have in common? Egypt, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, etc? But to you Israel is worse, based on what?

No, that's not what I said. Other countries may do worse things to their citizens, but Israel may be the biggest bullies. I'm definitely not saying they are worse then anyone/everyone else. Only that they are also guilty.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

Me neither. And quite frankly, if they can get SO pissed off over a Koran burning, there is no reason to stay there.

Bring our boys home.

It always makes me chuckle when ignorant fools like you try spin your ignorance and hatred like its more about your patriotism to Canada. This country is far better off without attitudes like yours.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

They're not "the Afghans." They're 16 people that have had their lives irrevocably changed. They aren't soldiers or insurgents or government agents, they're regular people. To not feel any sort of sympathy for regular people struck with tragedy like this is just a symptom of the desensitization we in the West seem to have when people "over there" die in droves. a sociopathic personality.

It was a totally disgusting comment.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Makarov

It was a totally disgusting comment.

Agreed, and the the sad fact is barely anyone has had a reaction to it.

I shouldn't have opened this thread, its been equal parts disappointing and infuriating.