03-05-2012, 02:51 PM
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#901
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Section 222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
In searching I cannot find an example of a trade where the backup had a much worse record than the starter. Remember that Toskala was a starter for a few years and our record ws catastrophic. Your logic is reaching if you assume we could get something close to Kipper. Anyway you look at it our record would be worse. Seven less wins is realistic and that would put us with somethingspecial up north
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I don't think you understand what textcritic was saying. You wouldn't replace your starting goalie with a back-up. Any team in the league that would replace their starter for a back-up would be considerably worse.
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Go Flames Go!!
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03-05-2012, 02:55 PM
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#902
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Franchise Player
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The Flames are not that bad of a team without Kipper. I don't think they would be in the playoff hunt like they are now, but they would not be a lottery team either. There would have been another goalie found to be steady in net. The Flames are not a lottery team any way you slice it - not with Iginla, Tanguay, Jokinen, Bouwmeester, Giordano and a bunch of steady veterans. Sure, we are not a contender, but the way people talk about the Flames without Kipper is pretty much as valid as saying we are contenders.
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03-05-2012, 02:56 PM
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#903
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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I was reading the Post over the weekend and they had a piece on the point-value (or something - I wish I could remember exactly the name and the source) of players to their team. Basically, someone analyzed what a particular player is worth to his team in terms of points in the standings. Malkin was the top skater with somewhere around 12 I believe (no Flame made the top 20 or whatever they had in the paper) and Kipper was #5 among goalies with 10.9 (I believe Rinne, Lundqvist, Mike Smith and........... Fleury?... were ahead of him). So, basically we would have 11 less points if we had an "average" goalie.
BTW, Bobby Orr holds the all-time recond with 20-something. Gretzky had around 19.
I am terribly sorry, but I was on holiday in Ivermere, so I cannot recall the website where all this can be found...
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03-05-2012, 02:57 PM
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#904
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First Line Centre
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Thought I clicked on the wrong link for a second. Isn't this the holy crap look at Baertschi thread???
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03-05-2012, 02:59 PM
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#905
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
The Flames are not that bad of a team without Kipper. I don't think they would be in the playoff hunt like they are now, but they would not be a lottery team either. There would have been another goalie found to be steady in net. The Flames are not a lottery team any way you slice it - not with Iginla, Tanguay, Jokinen, Bouwmeester, Giordano and a bunch of steady veterans. Sure, we are not a contender, but the way people talk about the Flames without Kipper is pretty much as valid as saying we are contenders.
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You realize just 5 less points and we are a lottery team? That is just 2.5 wins less than we have now. I'd say that is quite different than the 8-10 more wins we'd need to be a contender...
Edit: Actually looking at it, if we lose to Montreal and Edmonton loses to San Jose, we are just as far from the playoffs as we are from the lottery...
Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 03-05-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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03-05-2012, 03:07 PM
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#906
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhettzky
I don't think you understand what textcritic was saying. You wouldn't replace your starting goalie with a back-up. Any team in the league that would replace their starter for a back-up would be considerably worse.
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I was just pointing out that no team that traded their starter recently relied on them so heavily for wins, so those comparisons were not really valid
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03-05-2012, 03:22 PM
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#907
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Franchise Player
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Wargh!!! Don't dilute the lovefest that is the Sven Fricken Bartschi thread!
This is our only escape! Have hope!
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03-05-2012, 03:28 PM
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#908
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Wargh!!! Don't dilute the lovefest that is the Sven Fricken Bartschi thread!
This is our only escape! Have hope!
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Sorry, got carried away...
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03-05-2012, 03:36 PM
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#909
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Voted for Kodos
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More reports of swiss goodness please. Less debating about goaltenders.
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03-05-2012, 04:00 PM
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#910
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
I...Your logic is reaching if you assume we could get something close to Kipper. Anyway you look at it our record would be worse. Seven less wins is realistic and that would put us with somethingspecial up north
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I never suggested that our record would not be worse. My contention is that it is likely not to be so bad as to result in a -14 point loss on the season. I expect something closer to 10.
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03-05-2012, 04:20 PM
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#911
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I never suggested that our record would not be worse. My contention is that it is likely not to be so bad as to result in a -14 point loss on the season. I expect something closer to 10.
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See above. 
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03-05-2012, 04:43 PM
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#912
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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^
My apologies for the derailment of this fine thread, but I feel the point requires reinforcement, and then I am done with it. That point being: the Flames are not a 30th place team without Kiprusoff alone. My response is to the rather emphatic and poorly supported declarations such as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology
...We'd be lower than the Oilers if not for Kiprusoff...
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Simply not true. The Flames would be worse off, yes, and this would reflect in a lower placement in the standings, but even a 10-point fall from their current position is NOT lower than the Oilers.
I'm done. And now, back to Baertschi.
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03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
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#913
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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If Bartschi has holes in his game, does that make him Swiss BartCheese?
....
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03-05-2012, 05:15 PM
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#914
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH (Grew up in Calgary)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
If Bartschi has holes in his game, does that make him Swiss BartCheese?
....
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You are one clever mofo.
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Just trying to do my best
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03-05-2012, 06:35 PM
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#915
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Franchise Player
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40 goals and 70 assist is looking doable. Six games left against the bottom teams.
Sitting at 33 and 61.
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03-09-2012, 10:51 PM
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#916
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Baertschi looked good in his debut. He suprised me with his open ice speed, really fast and the way he chose to take the puck to the net around the D was impressive I have no doubt that the more he plays at this level he would soon be getting a full step on them.
Sven taking the body on boards was another thing I did not expect to see from him, the crowd was jacked everytime he touched the puck.
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03-09-2012, 10:53 PM
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#917
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Franchise Player
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Other than an incredibly dumb penalty in a two goal game, he definitely showed some brilliance out there. Good break outs.
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03-09-2012, 10:56 PM
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#918
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Pretty decent debut, especially for a young kid in his first game in such a situation.
Love seeing his speed and physical play.....two assets that will be huge for him and the team down the road.
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03-09-2012, 10:58 PM
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#919
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar_e
Other than an incredibly dumb penalty in a two goal game, he definitely showed some brilliance out there. Good break outs.
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I believe you mean BS penalty. That was just the refs showing a rookie that you respect the vets, that's all. Don't like it, but understand why they called it. Emotions got the best of him and he gave a vet some wood. 2 minutes and some humble pie will help him.
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03-09-2012, 11:01 PM
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#920
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar_e
Other than an incredibly dumb penalty in a two goal game, he definitely showed some brilliance out there. Good break outs.
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that call was so weak.
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