Their narrow goal is unachievable through public pressure, the LRA has been terrorising central africa for years, it isn't supported by outside interests and as such is imune to anything but sending several thousand troops in to kill them.
I disagree. I think you are underestimating the value of technological superiority and tactical expertise. Public pressure is not the only element involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant
It portrays him as a major source of issue in the area when there are much larger concerns at work (and where other sources have said his relevance has decreased in recent times). If they provided more context and that killing him would be a start, not the means to an end, or argued that this issue deserves priority over other issues because (for example) saving the children increase the more available workers for the future, I'd be better with it. It feels though that they put him in as the "big fish" in the area...that his death would be the magic bullet. Is it? I don't know. If it is, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong, that Invisible Children did a great job with their mission and deserve commendation.
Killing him is not the stated goal, although I would think that basically everybody is aware of the possibility of that outcome. The goal is to capture him and have him tried as a war criminal. (Is everyone discussing this video/movement sure that they have actually watched the video?)
I'm sure that I am misunderstanding you here (bold print), but shouldn't saving children from sex slavery and forced involvement as soldiers be enough reason? Even beyond saving children, shouldn't he be held to account for the crimes already committed that he is the most responsible for?
I really don't think that IC or anyone else is arguing that killing Kony is a magic bullet for peace (although with tens of millions of people discussing it there is bound to be plenty of strange arguments).
Even if Kony's capture does not ensure peace for Uganda, isn't it worth pursuing? What about the people being terrorized by the LRA in the Democratic Republic of the Congo now?
Killing him is not the stated goal, although I would think that basically everybody is aware of the possibility of that outcome. The goal is to capture him and have him tried as a war criminal. (Is everyone discussing this video/movement sure that they have actually watched the video?)
My bad. I misspoke (I'm getting inundated with the "bullet to the head" message by friends online and at work and am getting a bit lost as to what I've heard from the video and what I've been told by friends).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvy27
I'm sure that I am misunderstanding you here (bold print), but shouldn't saving children from sex slavery and forced involvement as soldiers be enough reason? Even beyond saving children, shouldn't he be held to account for the crimes already committed that he is the most responsible for?
Yes, there's a very good reason to bring him in. I'm just not sure it's the first thing to do. I'm not saying let him off the hook or ignore him...he deserved to be brought in and tried someday, no doubt. The problem is limited resources and a massive pileup of things that need fixing...what comes first? And that's where my concern lies: I'm not convinced Kony is the first thing that we should be looking at solving.
Of course, this does present the scenario that Kony is so far down the priority list that he never gets looked at before he dies before being pursued. I hope there is enough interest in and support for the region though to prevent that from happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvy27
Even if Kony's capture does not ensure peace for Uganda, isn't it worth pursuing? What about the people being terrorized by the LRA in the Democratic Republic of the Congo now?
As I mentioned before, yes. I'm not an expert on the area, so I won't speak as to what needs to be worked out first (and if it turns out to be Kony, I'll support funds being used to get him), but for what people are thinking is the best outcome for Uganda and Congo doesn't sound like Kony is high on the priority list from other groups who speak more generally about the concerns in Uganda.
For people interested, this blog has been following the reaction to the #stopkony campaign and it makes for very interesting reading. There is a pretty diverse range of opinion coming from people on the ground in Uganda.
I'll admit that it gives me pause that the only African person I've seen supporting the movement is Jacob from the video.
For people interested, this blog has been following the reaction to the #stopkony campaign and it makes for very interesting reading. There is a pretty diverse range of opinion coming from people on the ground in Uganda.
I'll admit that it gives me pause that the only African person I've seen supporting the movement is Jacob from the video.
Hello.....
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Izama says there's a crucial natural resource angle that's being overlooked, pointing out that Uganda recently discovered "significant deposits of oil" near its border with the DRC. "This is the one game changer in the history of conflict in that region" Izama said. He said joint military operations are increasingly concentrated in the oil-rich area.
"One of my issues with Invisible Children is that by providing such a truncated vision, and an unreal one, of what's happening today in our area right now, they missed the opportunity to cast this in much more broader and much more significant terms."
Izama pointed out that the Ugandan military – which the Obama administration legally committed itself to assisting one year after the oil discovery – has been increasing its oil-related security operations.
"For Uganda to exploit oil on that border region, it has to run a very large security operation. Part of that includes securing the border against rebels groups including the LRA, the Allied Democratic Forces, Congolese militias and several other Sudanese and Congolese groups that are all operating in that area," he said. "LRA is actually a minority."
"Governments that are motivated by exploiting solely this resource can be pretty excessive in their choice of policies. I think that Invisible Children really lost that wonderful opportunity," Izama added. "The big story in Uganda is about the oil."
I disagree. I think you are underestimating the value of technological superiority and tactical expertise. Public pressure is not the only element involved.
Killing him is not the stated goal, although I would think that basically everybody is aware of the possibility of that outcome. The goal is to capture him and have him tried as a war criminal. (Is everyone discussing this video/movement sure that they have actually watched the video?)
I'm sure that I am misunderstanding you here (bold print), but shouldn't saving children from sex slavery and forced involvement as soldiers be enough reason? Even beyond saving children, shouldn't he be held to account for the crimes already committed that he is the most responsible for?
I really don't think that IC or anyone else is arguing that killing Kony is a magic bullet for peace (although with tens of millions of people discussing it there is bound to be plenty of strange arguments).
Even if Kony's capture does not ensure peace for Uganda, isn't it worth pursuing? What about the people being terrorized by the LRA in the Democratic Republic of the Congo now?
via 4chan.
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I disagree. I think you are underestimating the value of technological superiority and tactical expertise. Public pressure is not the only element involved.
Killing him is not the stated goal, although I would think that basically everybody is aware of the possibility of that outcome. The goal is to capture him and have him tried as a war criminal. (Is everyone discussing this video/movement sure that they have actually watched the video?)
I'm sure that I am misunderstanding you here (bold print), but shouldn't saving children from sex slavery and forced involvement as soldiers be enough reason? Even beyond saving children, shouldn't he be held to account for the crimes already committed that he is the most responsible for?
I really don't think that IC or anyone else is arguing that killing Kony is a magic bullet for peace (although with tens of millions of people discussing it there is bound to be plenty of strange arguments).
Even if Kony's capture does not ensure peace for Uganda, isn't it worth pursuing? What about the people being terrorized by the LRA in the Democratic Republic of the Congo now?
These couple of thousand wack jobs live deep in the border jungle moving across the various borders as things get to hot in one or other country taking advantage of the reletive inability of the various nations to patrol their territory. There is nothing anyone can do except put together a largish military force and relentless persue the #######s, thats it, no outside presure is going to change anything.
Well... their work already triggered the US to help by putting 100 military advisors on the ground. It looks like they are doing something.
Not trying to sound smug or like a jerk but people bitch and moan about Americans being the world police but then when they need help they call us. Just put special forces on the ground and koni is dead in a week
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Not trying to sound smug or like a jerk but people bitch and moan about Americans being the world police but then when they need help they call us. Just put special forces on the ground and koni is dead in a week
How many 11 yr old kids would they have to kill to get to him though? This could get real ugly and I don't know if any president would want to go in and kill a bunch of captured kids, because that's what would happen.
This reminds me of the scout master asking why it took 6 scouts to help the little old lady across the street. The answer being that she didn't want to go.
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How many 11 yr old kids would they have to kill to get to him though? This could get real ugly and I don't know if any president would want to go in and kill a bunch of captured kids, because that's what would happen.
This is a major problem. You don't get to be the head of your own rebel army by by stupid and by having no charisma
Make no mistake those kids in his army have been heavily conditioned and drugged, and I'm betting that an incredibly large percentage of them are extremely loyal.
As an add on you don't survive in the jungle without having top rated survival instincts. This Kony goon is not going to present himself for a sniper bullet to the head, your going to have to go through his army of kids to get at him, and as poorly trained as these kids are they probably still have a lot of bullets for their guns.
The body count even with a special forces unit is going to be brutal in terms of the child soldiers getting whacked.
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Not trying to sound smug or like a jerk but people bitch and moan about Americans being the world police but then when they need help they call us. Just put special forces on the ground and koni is dead in a week
FYI, Obama sent special forces to Uganda to fight the Lord's Resistance Army last October.
Quote:
President Obama is deploying about 100 special operations troops to Africa to help target the leadership of the Lord’s Resistance Army, a notorious rebel group that has been entrenched in a stalemate with the government of Uganda for more than two decades.
In a letter notifying Congress on Friday, Obama said the first small team of U.S. “combat-equipped” advisors arrived in Uganda on Wednesday.
Over the next month, the remaining U.S. troops will be sent to surrounding countries, including South Sudan, the Central African Republic and Congo.
The goal of the U.S. mission is to assist regional African forces in removing Lord’s Resistance Army leader Joseph Kony and other commanders of the group “from the battlefield,” the letter says.
Funnily enough, Rush Limbaugh got in a bit of hot water at the time. He accused Obama of using American troops to wage a proxy war in support of African Muslims who were fighting the "Christians" of the LRA.
Quote:
You never heard of Lord’s Resistance Army? Well, proves my contention, most Americans have never heard of it, and here we are at war with them. Lord’s Resistance Army are Christians. It means God. I was only kidding. Lord’s Resistance Army are Christians. They are fighting the Muslims in Sudan. And Obama has sent troops, United States troops to remove them from the battlefield, which means kill them. That’s what the lingo means, “to help regional forces remove from the battlefield,” meaning capture or kill. [...]
Lord’s Resistance Army objectives. I have them here. “To remove dictatorship and stop the oppression of our people.” Now, again Lord’s Resistance Army is who Obama sent troops to help nations wipe out. The objectives of the Lord’s Resistance Army, what they’re trying to accomplish with their military action in these countries is the following: “To remove dictatorship and stop the oppression of our people; to fight for the immediate restoration of the competitive multiparty democracy in Uganda; to see an end to gross violation of human rights and dignity of Ugandans; to ensure the restoration of peace and security in Uganda, to ensure unity, sovereignty, and economic prosperity beneficial to all Ugandans, and to bring to an end the repressive policy of deliberate marginalization of groups of people who may not agree with the LRA ideology.” Those are the objectives of the group that we are fighting, or who are being fought and we are joining in the effort to remove them from the battlefield.
Guys that made a video posing with the governments army. If you do some digging you'll find that these guys and their organization are shady.
Not as shady as stealing kids and making them become hardened killers at an age where they should be playing sports, learning, and socializing with friends and family.
I don't care if the proceeds raised buy them mansions, cars and fancy jewels. If it ultimately saves kids lives then that's better than the status quo.
Not as shady as stealing kids and making them become hardened killers at an age where they should be playing sports, learning, and socializing with friends and family.
I don't care if the proceeds raised buy them mansions, cars and fancy jewels. If it ultimately saves kids lives then that's better than the status quo.
This is where the major problem lies. Is backing the Ugandan army who is no longer under threat by the LRA the best way to save kids lives? One of the main arguments against this group is that they could end up sending Uganda back to war when they are finally enjoying some peace right now.
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This is where the major problem lies. Is backing the Ugandan army who is no longer under threat by the LRA the best way to save kids lives? One of the main arguments against this group is that they could end up sending Uganda back to war when they are finally enjoying some peace right now.
It's no longer about Uganda, this is about Kony and what he's done and continues to do. It's now become eerily similar to Osama Bin Laden in that he's deep within unfamiliar country and territory.
All I'm saying is the most important thing here is that an innocent child should not be in danger of this happening, don't care where it is.
