Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Doesn't matter if it didn't work, or if the final results meant that it didn't matter.

The attempt is the problem.

Yes, but we still haven't established who was responsible or how many of the 31,000 complaints are even related.. Love or hate Harper, he isn't stupid, I doubt he would have anything to do with something like this.

[Flabbibulin]

31,000 complaints filed? Very curious, as there were apparently only 30 complaints filed, for these types of irregularities, immediately after the election.

I would put this at a three way, maybe even four way, tie for which political party the source is likely a supporter of.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Yes, but we still haven't established who was responsible or how many of the 31,000 complaints are even related.. Love or hate Harper, he isn't stupid, I doubt he would have anything to do with something like this.

I don't think that Harper was directly invovled either, but again that isn't the point. When you have candidates and their workers representing you on a campaign you end up taking the heat for them. Like it or not, that is just the way it works.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think that Harper was directly invovled either, but again that isn't the point. When you have candidates and their workers representing you on a campaign you end up taking the heat for them. Like it or not, that is just the way it works.

So should the Liberal party be guilty of election fraud?

After all Volpe with his assistant doorknocker was caught on camera destroying opponents campaign literature.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

31,000 complaints filed? Very curious, as there were apparently only 30 complaints filed, for these types of irregularities, immediately after the election.

I would put this at a three way, maybe even four way, tie for which political party the source is likely a supporter of.

4? Oh right, well we know it wasn't the grass party, they have better things to do then phone in complaints, and if someone phoned them it would probably be a three hour conversation revolving around the merits of Pink Floyd.

No it had to be those damn Marxist-Lenninists.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So should the Liberal party be guilty of election fraud?

After all Volpe with his assistant doorknocker was caught on camera destroying opponents campaign literature.

I'm not in favour of that either. Go ahead and make a complaint and see what Elections Canada does with it.

Call me a partisan (although I don't think that the shoe fits here), but representing yourself as Elections Canada and phoning people to misdirect them for voting seems a little more serious? Not sure why that distinction seems hard to fathom for CPC supporters.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not in favour of that either. Go ahead and make a complaint and see what Elections Canada does with it.

Call me a partisan (although I don't think that the shoe fits here), but representing yourself as Elections Canada and phoning people to misdirect them for voting seems a little more serious? Not sure why that distinction seems hard to fathom for CPC supporters.

Probably because there is no evidence yet suggesting who, or what party they support, is behind these stupid calls. I think it would be silly to assume that the source had the official support of any major party.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sure, I believe its serious, that's why I'm happy that there's an elections Canada investigation happening.

However a lot of Liberal supporters are already jumping to a insideous connection with Harper and the evil conservatives, without waiting for the results.

With Adscam and In and out and Shawinigate etc it seems prudent to see some evidence that actually links it to the Conservative Party structure instead of some over zealous campaign worker.

At least the Conservatives aren't trying to supress the investigation, that seems to be a Liberal trick.

I want to see the results of the investigation.

I would like to see the so called 31,000 complaints to see what they actually entail I think that's important before we say that there are omg 31,000 cases of people being misdirected.

I wonder how many of those callers are looneys talking about their cat receiving mental messages from the Conservative mental manipulation squad, how many of them are complaints that they got a call during dinner or later at night, and how many were actually results of the fraud allegation.

I would also be really curious to see what the breakdown in party support is in those calls, how many came from the same numbers in the same region.

I get that the opposition is trying to make hay on this, that's their job, and they really don't have much else that they seem to be able to get traction out of. But I would hope that there's not an attempt to subvert the investigation by the Liberal's or NDP.

(See I can make accusations too)

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Probably because there is no evidence yet suggesting who, or what party they support, is behind these stupid calls. I think it would be silly to assume that the source had the official support of any major party.

What am I missing here? The 23 year old kid resigned in Guelph, and even Peter Mackay suggested that it was due to this issue. That seems fairly obvious as to which party (or at least which party representatives) were behind this.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Slava

What am I missing here? The 23 year old kid resigned in Guelph, and even Peter Mackay suggested that it was due to this issue. That seems fairly obvious as to which party (or at least which party representatives) were behind this.

clearly a secret agent

btw, Sona resigned because of the pressure of the situation- not because he was admitting guilt. But of course some will spin it.

[GP_Matt]

The investigation is looking into who is responsible. It looks to have been a conservative supporter but the kid you are referring to said that he resigned because of all the publicity surrounding the incident and not because he was guilty. I am not saying that I believe him but it seems prudent to wait for the results of the investigation before stringing up an entire political party. It isn't like the Conservatives are delaying the investigation results until after an election. If there was an upcoming election and the results were not going to be released until after then speculation makes sense, but we won't have an election for a few years.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not in favour of that either. Go ahead and make a complaint and see what Elections Canada does with it.

Call me a partisan (although I don't think that the shoe fits here), but representing yourself as Elections Canada and phoning people to misdirect them for voting seems a little more serious? Not sure why that distinction seems hard to fathom for CPC supporters.

I agree it is very serious. If and when they catch the people responsible, they absolutely should string them all up. If it can be proven that Harper knew about it and either supported it or didn't do everything in his power to stop it, he should also be punished severely. Having said that, at this point it can't even be proven that it was a conservative operative, volunteer or otherwise, that is "Pierre Poutine".

However, none of that excuses similar tactics by the Liberals, caught on camera. If you are suggesting Harper should pay simply because he leads the party where a volunteer at the local level overstepped his bounds (assuming that is what happened here), then clearly Iggy and the Liberal leadership should as well. Both are criminal acts.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

Call me a partisan (although I don't think that the shoe fits here), but representing yourself as Elections Canada and phoning people to misdirect them for voting seems a little more serious? Not sure why that distinction seems hard to fathom for CPC supporters.

So some election fraud is worse than other election fraud ... even when one case involves a campaign worker and the other involves a campaign worker. Seems to me Volpe's guy, who was about 50' away at the time, was suppressing the Green vote. Ignatieff should have resigned.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Slava

What am I missing here? The 23 year old kid resigned in Guelph, and even Peter Mackay suggested that it was due to this issue. That seems fairly obvious as to which party (or at least which party representatives) were behind this.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/lo...n-election-day

In this article you'll note that even the opposition doesn't believe it was Sona that was behind the robo-calling. They, of course, believe it was Harper himself I'm sure.

Having said that, I don't think you can have it both ways - it can't be a massive conspiracy that "you can't scapegoat onto some young kid" and at the same time be "all the conservative fault because that young kid resigned" especially when the kid has said he had nothing to do with the Robo-calls (which also were directed to Conservative supporters - a point that most media seem to be completely ignoring).

[Slava]

You guys are hilarious. Now the story is that the kid resigned because of the pressure? I'm sure he knew nothing and it was probably the Liberals or just some rogue somewhere that he knew nothing about. So rather than stay the course knowing everything was good and he had nothing to worry about he resigns? How does that possibly make sense....it has nothing to do with spin.

Like I say Jacks, election fraud is election fraud. I encourage you to turn that evidence over the Elections Canada and get an investigation going. Its my personal opinion that flyers going missing is nowhere near as serious a concern as knowingly and willfully misrepresenting yourself to voters to take away their right to vote, but its not my decision.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not in favour of that either. Go ahead and make a complaint and see what Elections Canada does with it.

Call me a partisan (although I don't think that the shoe fits here), but representing yourself as Elections Canada and phoning people to misdirect them for voting seems a little more serious? Not sure why that distinction seems hard to fathom for CPC supporters.

It is a bit more serious, but not by a large margin.

Both are tampering with the way an election is supposed to work. The big difference is, someone destroying election material (a sign, pamphlet etc) for another candidate is almost certainly not working as part of a large group of people attempting to subvert the proper election process.

The fact is,if the earlier post in this thread that indicated so is correct, there did not appear to be any impact from the robocalled. Similarly, there was probably a negligible impact from random candidate tearing up X pieces of campaign literature.

Doesn't excuse either though.

For me, there is almost zero chance that 'dirty politics' or scandals of any type will impact the way I vote. In the end, all politicians are the really the same.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

Like I say Jacks, election fraud is election fraud. I encourage you to turn that evidence over the Elections Canada and get an investigation going. Its my personal opinion that flyers going missing is nowhere near as serious a concern as knowingly and willfully misrepresenting yourself to voters to take away their right to vote, but its not my decision.

All I'm trying to get across is that it is way too early to be convicting anyone of this let alone tarring the whole Conservative Party. If you want to bash the party based on the unethical actions of a campaign worker then you have to be upset when either party does it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

All I'm trying to get across is that it is way too early to be convicting anyone of this let alone tarring the whole Conservative Party. If you want to bash the party based on the unethical actions of a campaign worker then you have to be upset when either party does it.

I agree. I surely don't condone the actions of that incident. I just think that misdirecting voters is a much larger concern and whether its due to my bias or what appears to be overwhelming evidence (in my opinion) I blame the conservatives. I haven't seen a single thing that suggests its any other party.

It is too early to convict anyone, but its not too early to see which party looks to be involved.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Rathji

For me, there is almost zero chance that 'dirty politics' or scandals of any type will impact the way I vote. In the end, all politicians are the really the same.

Exactly, right now this sideshow is creating a political fog that may distract people from real policy changes that are flying under the radar. I'd like to see way more of a debate on the upcoming budget and CPP/OAS topics that will have a real financial impact on Canadians. Where are the NDP and Liberals on that???

It does not mean that all parties should be allowed off the hook, if there is in fact enough evidence, there should be a formal criminal investigation handled by the police and let the results of that investigation settle the matter. Trying to score political points on a potential scandal 3-4 years from an election is a big waste of time.

[Canuck-Hater]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1nykbQSMy

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...00-complaints/

These articles might have been posted previously, sorry for the fata.