Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[Smartcar]

What really bites is lack of concern about dirty tricks that subvert democracy, the PM doesn't seem to care, just wants to state that the Conservatives weren't behind it. Back when the PCs were running ads highlighting Chretien's face, Kim Campbell pulled the ads. There are no bars now, "not a leader" and "just visiting" are fair game for character assassination unless it's Vic ("stand with us or the child pornographers") Toews who is being targeted.

I guess the dirty tricks started in the previous election but nothing was done about it: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2354592/
So I'm sure it's going to get worse. Survival of the slimiest.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

the PM doesn't seem to care, just wants to state that the Conservatives weren't behind it

I believe that the PM has stated that the guilty parties should be prosecuted. What more do you expect him to say?

Originally Posted by Smartcar

There are no bars now, "not a leader" and "just visiting" are fair game for character assassination

Don't forget "soldiers with guns in the streets" "will take away a women's right to choose" "will ban gay marriage" "hidden agenda" etc.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

What really bites is lack of concern about dirty tricks that subvert democracy, the PM doesn't seem to care, just wants to state that the Conservatives weren't behind it. Back when the PCs were running ads highlighting Chretien's face, Kim Campbell pulled the ads. There are no bars now, "not a leader" and "just visiting" are fair game for character assassination unless it's Vic ("stand with us or the child pornographers") Toews who is being targeted.

I guess the dirty tricks started in the previous election but nothing was done about it: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2354592/
So I'm sure it's going to get worse. Survival of the slimiest.

Again, all that article shows is that someone isn't happy they lost. There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Conservatives were behind it, just that it happened. Elizabeth May, who has bounced around the country looking for the best seat for her to finally get elected, and basically threw every one of the other ridings under the bus to finally get elected, has exactly zero credibility on "dirty tricks" or electoral pureness.

The article is also factually inaccurate. Racknine costs demonstrate that it is not particularly expensive to setup a robo-call to urge people to vote one way or another, and it is exceedingly easy.

[Slava]

I haven't heard a single Liberal say that they should redo any elections or anything like that. All they are asking for is an investigation into what happened and to get to the bottom of it. To me that is far from being poor losers or anything like that. It actually seems pretty reasonable to hammer away at these things.

As for the Conservatives and your assertion that "There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Conservatives were behind it..." that is just ridiculous. The CPC hasn't come right out and said they it was the party itself, but party people have resigned and made mention that when said people resigned it was due to their involvement in this whole robo-call thing. In that case its either that the Conservatives are resigning just to be safe, or they're actually implicated.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I haven't heard a single Liberal say that they should redo any elections or anything like that. All they are asking for is an investigation into what happened and to get to the bottom of it. To me that is far from being poor losers or anything like that. It actually seems pretty reasonable to hammer away at these things.

As for the Conservatives and your assertion that "There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Conservatives were behind it..." that is just ridiculous. The CPC hasn't come right out and said they it was the party itself, but party people have resigned and made mention that when said people resigned it was due to their involvement in this whole robo-call thing. In that case its either that the Conservatives are resigning just to be safe, or they're actually implicated.

I don't know if I agree with what your saying.

In the private world there are probably thousands of examples of individuals inside of organizations that have gone "rogue" so to speak.

The stock brokers who break their own organizations rules with backside trading.

The guy at HP who basically manufactured orders and PO's

The lady at airport security who robbed passengers during her search.

In each of those the organization isn't guilty its the individual.

It could very much be the same case here.

It almost sounds like your in a hurry to condemn the Cons before the investigation is complete.

Unless there's a direct chain of funding evidence or other things linking this robocall scandal to senior leadership in the conservatives, then its the act of rogue individuals.

And suppossedly the evil conservatives would put together a much more insideous conspiracy then this.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if I agree with what your saying.

In the private world there are probably thousands of examples of individuals inside of organizations that have gone "rogue" so to speak.

The stock brokers who break their own organizations rules with backside trading.

The guy at HP who basically manufactured orders and PO's

The lady at airport security who robbed passengers during her search.

In each of those the organization isn't guilty its the individual.

It could very much be the same case here.

It almost sounds like your in a hurry to condemn the Cons before the investigation is complete.

Unless there's a direct chain of funding evidence or other things linking this robocall scandal to senior leadership in the conservatives, then its the act of rogue individuals.

And suppossedly the evil conservatives would put together a much more insideous conspiracy then this.

I don't think that anyone is trying to condemn the conservatives anymore than the evidence suggests. The reality is that these people (candidates, campaign workers, etc.) represent the party though. If I run some ponzi scheme from my office then my securities dealership would not only be implicated by association, but would be questioned for involvement as well. When a political party has these issues they're held to a similar standard. The CPC seemed to have no qualms about tarring every Liberal as a probable criminal because of the sponsorship scandal, and as a result they should expect nothing better if they're not beyond repproach.

[LChoy]

Just want to offer my 2 cents,

I know Matt (founder of Racknine) personally. He's a good guy and he was absolutely floored that this was happening.
Matt is kind of a programming genius and created his own data company with a staff of about 5 people including himself. I'll admit that I don't know the complete ins and outs of his company but I do know that Racknine provides an assortment of data services, among those being "robo-calling" capabilities. The system was designed to make it easy for the user to create an account and upload a message. Matt followed a perfectly standard protocol of getting users to sign the proper forms and had the correct requirements and guidelines for the use of his systems. There is a large volume of data that goes into his home server farm. While I don't know what kind of screening protocols they have, I do know if Matt suspected that someone is purposely using his system to disrupt the election (and so far, that person has been really good at covering their tracks), he would have put a stop to it.

Like I said, I can't judge Racknine as a company since I'm only familiar from what I heard and seen, but I can vouch for Matt's character. He is essentially a normal guy. He married his university girlfriend and is a new father. Matt and his wife throws large BBQs in the summer (in fact, his house is pretty much open all year for friend to gather at), they go on an annual camping trip during May long. Yes, Matt is politically active, but his passion is to encourage more participation in the demoncratic process, something that's directly contradicts what happened with those phoney Election Canada calls.

Anyways, just wanted to put it out there that Matt isn't some Hillbilly or some sort of shadowly slimely conservative operative. He's a normal person who's just at shocked that this has happened, especially using a system he created

Lchoy

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Slava

I haven't heard a single Liberal say that they should redo any elections or anything like that. All they are asking for is an investigation into what happened and to get to the bottom of it. To me that is far from being poor losers or anything like that. It actually seems pretty reasonable to hammer away at these things.

As for the Conservatives and your assertion that "There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Conservatives were behind it..." that is just ridiculous. The CPC hasn't come right out and said they it was the party itself, but party people have resigned and made mention that when said people resigned it was due to their involvement in this whole robo-call thing. In that case its either that the Conservatives are resigning just to be safe, or they're actually implicated.

Um, my comment was directly related to the article and comment I was quoting - which was to do with the riding of Saanich-Gulf Islands in the 2006 election. In that case, in that article, there is nothing to indicate the Conservative had anything to do with robo-calling and increasing the NDP vote - which is what Elizabeth May is now suggesting, some 6 years later.

As for your first few sentences, I'm pretty sure there is an investigation on-going by both the RCMP and Elections Canada. Again, my "sore loser" comments were actually in reference to the article and previous comment that I had quoted about 2006, not the current robo-calling issues. My stance on that has been consistent in every single post in this thread - those responsible need to be hunted down and punished to the full extent of the law.

[c.t.ner]

More info from today.

Globe and Mail: Sloppy Work by Pierre Poutine Leaves Lengthy Trail For Robo Call Sleuth

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2356332/

Interesting little sights into what is actually been uncovered and some positivity in regards to the chance of actually catching the culprits.

Experts say dirty-trick phone calls are usually placed from U.S. call centres or sent from hard-to-trace devices, but that “Pierre Poutine” made “comical errors,” including using the same cellphone to set up a robo-call account and then list its number on the ensuing fraudulent calls.

National Post: Tories review tapes at Thunder Bay Call Centre as questions grow over company's legal history.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/02/tories-review-tapes-at-thunder-bay-call-centre-as-questions-grow-over-companys-checkered-legal-history/

[Jacks]

Looks like that tool Pat Martin finally shot his mouth off a little too much. He must have forgot that he wasn't in the house when he chose to do his regular smear job.

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2012/03/...re-being-sued/

[CaptainCrunch]

Pat Martin is an a$$ and a blow hard.

I'd like to see the arogant smuck squirm for a while.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Looks like that tool Pat Martin finally shot his mouth off a little too much. He must have forgot that he wasn't in the house when he chose to do his regular smear job.

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2012/03/...re-being-sued/

LMAO Pat Martin response on Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/PatMartinMP/s...03506819358722

[Jacks]

You follow Pat Martin on Twitter

[burn_this_city]

Good on the Racknine guy to sue, this company was just a conduit for this and I'm sure his business will suffer as a result.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You follow Pat Martin on Twitter

Saw it in the #cdnpoli tag. But I do follow a few Alberta ND's

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You follow Pat Martin on Twitter

Why not? If you're interested in politics (and First Lady most definitely is), doesn't it make sense to follow politicians from all parties to see what they're posting?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Good on the Racknine guy to sue, this company was just a conduit for this and I'm sure his business will suffer as a result.

On the other hand, think of all the free publicity he's getting! How many people even knew his company existed and what service they provided before this story broke? Most reasonable people are able to conclude that RackNine isn't much different than an ISP or telecom company in that they provide a legal service that can be abused by customers to conduct illegal activities.

I doubt I'll ever be in the market for a robo-caller, but if I was, I certainly wouldn't disqualify RackNine because of this.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Why not? If you're interested in politics (and First Lady most definitely is), doesn't it make sense to follow politicians from all parties to see what they're posting?

I was being facetious, apparently I should have used green text.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if I agree with what your saying.

In the private world there are probably thousands of examples of individuals inside of organizations that have gone "rogue" so to speak.

The stock brokers who break their own organizations rules with backside trading.

The guy at HP who basically manufactured orders and PO's

The lady at airport security who robbed passengers during her search.

In each of those the organization isn't guilty its the individual.

It could very much be the same case here.

It almost sounds like your in a hurry to condemn the Cons before the investigation is complete.

Unless there's a direct chain of funding evidence or other things linking this robocall scandal to senior leadership in the conservatives, then its the act of rogue individuals.

And suppossedly the evil conservatives would put together a much more insideous conspiracy then this.

In your examples though, the individuals gain something for themselves, they are not doing it for the organization. What would an individual gain from helping someone else win a riding?

If they knew that there was something in it for them to commit this act, that would have been communicated from above or from somewhere. Why else would they spend their own money to do this? I don't know if this goes up the PMs office, but there is probably 2 or 3 levels above whoever did this that were making promises.

[Bertuzzied]

Wow 31,000 complaints about robocaller in the past couple of days. Some one is going to go down hard.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics.../19450616.html