Election's Canada investigating "Robocall" Guelph Riding (and other ridings).

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The biggest shocker for me was knowing that people actually listen to these things and don't immediately hang up the phone.

I think the stat is around 30% of those who will listen to an entire message; based on a one minute message.

[zuluking]

Brutal. I wonder what goes through these people's minds when they embark on sleazy, underhanded methods to affect an election. How do they think they won't get caught? I hope this is absolutely considered a criminal offense and they get the book thrown at them. I can stomach stupid attack ads and ridiculous political promises, but undermining the democratic process can not be tolerated.

Did anyone else notice the shot at the WRA in the Citizen's article? "In addition to Racknine's work for Alberta Conservative candidates in the federal election, Meier also has been involved with the provincial Wildrose Party in Alberta." I wonder what the point of that was......

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Did anyone else notice the shot at the WRA in the Citizen's article? "In addition to Racknine's work for Alberta Conservative candidates in the federal election, Meier also has been involved with the provincial Wildrose Party in Alberta." I wonder what the point of that was......

I noticed that. In addition, one of the interesting things is that Racknine really isn't at fault and seams to be providing all of their information to the investigation. It's really just a service provider in all of this.

Here's a more updated rundown from the National Post today: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02...lph-black-ops/

[Jacks]

At this point there is nothing showing wrongdoing on the part of Racknine or the Conservative Party. The media seem to be dragging in anyone who has used Racknine in the past as though they are somehow involved or used the same tactics. If someone pulled a robbery and drove a Honda that doesn't make all Honda drivers robbers. Investigate it fully, if the party is involved then nail them to the wall but in the meantime let's not convict anyone without proof.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

I noticed that. In addition, one of the interesting things is that Racknine really isn't at fault and seams to be providing all of their information to the investigation. It's really just a service provider in all of this.

Here's a more updated rundown from the National Post today: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02...lph-black-ops/

We've gotten to know Matt over the years and now consider him a friend. He has really been dragged through the mud over the past week on Twitter, Facebook and in the media. Totally unjustified in my mind. Cory wrote about this too.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...645/story.html

Sure, $190 for the calls alone. That isn't the figure including set-up and such though? You know as well as I that it costs more than $190 to do a call out....and when you consider that the allegation is 40 ridings its not going to be a one-time set-up either!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure, $190 for the calls alone. That isn't the figure including set-up and such though? You know as well as I that it costs more than $190 to do a call out....and when you consider that the allegation is 40 ridings its not going to be a one-time set-up either!

The question that I would have to ask as well is would they target people who they throught would vote for a non-Conservative Party, and if so, where did they get this information from.

From a logistical standpoint I fail to see how this couldn't have involved more members of the Conservative Party than just a couple of staffers. I voted for them in the past election but so far almost a year into their majority it seems to be an awful lot of blunders and missteps on their part. That being said they still are a better option than the other parties as the NDP is marred in what appears to be the most boring leadership convention of all time and the Liberals can't get any traction anywhere and are a floundering party with no real evident framework.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure, $190 for the calls alone. That isn't the figure including set-up and such though? You know as well as I that it costs more than $190 to do a call out....and when you consider that the allegation is 40 ridings its not going to be a one-time set-up either!

All Matt sets up is a user ID.

User then logs in transacts a payment (ie: similar to PayPal).

User records a message, which can either be done on your computer or you can call it in and with PIN it will attach to your user account.

User uploads a list of numbers in a .csv file format.

User schedules days and hours of the dial... and away it goes.

I'd have to check my records, but IIRC I did one dial to 40,000 numbers and it was $700.00 'ish... my message was longer than one minute.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by First Lady

All Matt sets up is a user ID.

User then logs in transacts a payment (ie: similar to PayPal).

User records a message, which can either be done on your computer or you can call it in and with PIN it will attach to your user account.

User uploads a list of numbers in a .csv file format.

User schedules days and hours of the dial... and away it goes.

I'd have to check my records, but IIRC I did one dial to 40,000 numbers and it was $700.00 'ish... my message was longer than one minute.

Annoying me at suppertime should carry a cost far, far greater than $700!!! Perhaps a limb or an eye...

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The question that I would have to ask as well is would they target people who they throught would vote for the non-Conservative Party,

The message gave false information about where to vote. It was clearly designed to cause confusion and frustration in the hopes they wouldn't vote.

and if so, where did they get this information from.

Depending on the experience of the campaign team, they would (should) have gathered this information. It is just as important to identify your supporters as it is to identify those of your competitors.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Five years in jail sounds about right for perverting the course of a federal election.

The other outcome (on a bigger scale) is that ridings where this fraud is shown to have occurred, could lead to by-elections.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...202108363.html

"If a judge is satisfied [the dirty tricks] could have affected the results then the judge can overturn the election and the government must call a by-election," said Kingsley, who held Elections Canada's top post for 17 year before resigning in 2007. "The judge would have to be satisfied that the number of electors who were affected or potentially affected is greater than the difference in the votes between the candidate who came in first and the candidate who came second."

Out of the 40 ridings tied to the scandal, it seams that many were won in a clear majority (for all parties sides), but there are also other riding where the difference was less 18-35 votes or a couple hundred.

It'll be interesting to see what justifies "that the number of electors who were affected or potentially affected is greater than the difference in the votes" element. Especially, since it'll be hard to determine how many people were misdirected.

[Rathji]

Wonder who the 2 women were who did the recordings? If they were involved and knew exactly what they were doing or were just random people called in to read a script into a mic.

[Tinordi]

There's a special place in hell for those who willingly attempt to pervert the democratic process.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Annoying me at suppertime should carry a cost far, far greater than $700!!! Perhaps a limb or an eye...

In the end you are still the winner; I'm not your Alderman.

[oilyfan]

This is really embarrassing news as a Canadian, how can this happen in an advanced democracy.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by First Lady

The message gave false information about where to vote. It was clearly designed to cause confusion and frustration in the hopes they wouldn't vote.

Depending on the experience of the campaign team, they would (should) have gathered this information. It is just as important to identify your supporters as it is to identify those of your competitors.

So they would have gathered a list of people who said they wouldn't vote for the Conservative Party and then phoned those people on the list in order to create confusion within the electorate. I am amazed that it took this long some something like that to get into the mainstream media as that would take more than one or two staffers with to much free time on their hands.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Wonder who the 2 women were who did the recordings? If they were involved and knew exactly what they were doing or were just random people called in to read a script into a mic.

I think it's important to note RackNine was only asked to turn over the records for one individual (campaign). There are other LIVE calls being investigated.


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...l-centre-staff

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

So they would have gathered a list of people who said they wouldn't vote for the Conservative Party and then phoned those people on the list in order to create confusion within the electorate. I am amazed that it took this long some something like that to get into the mainstream media as that would take more than one or two staffers with to much free time on their hands.

As I understand it the investigation has been going on for some time now. Matt turned the records over in Nov 2011. Elections Canada is under no obligation to notify the public of ongoing investigations.

Just like Elections Alberta; they can't speak of investigations until there is a conviction. They have some 40 files open right now.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

All Matt sets up is a user ID.

User then logs in transacts a payment (ie: similar to PayPal).

User records a message, which can either be done on your computer or you can call it in and with PIN it will attach to your user account.

User uploads a list of numbers in a .csv file format.

User schedules days and hours of the dial... and away it goes.

I'd have to check my records, but IIRC I did one dial to 40,000 numbers and it was $700.00 'ish... my message was longer than one minute.

I obviously paid too much!

I figure that the way to target Liberal voters would be to find the Liberal supporters in your "regular" GOTV campaign and then just submit that information to make these calls. It would be a fair amount of work, but frankly when you have some close races it could be a big difference in the outcome. If you think that voters are undecided then a good way to do this is have the calls annoy people to no end, which seemed to take place with calls on Saturdays to jewish people.

[Slava]

Another article with some new information. Looks like the perpatrators knew what they were doing and tried to keep it covered up to some extent...http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Documen...863/story.html