2011-12 Prospect Stats and Update Thread

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would suggest just based on a glance at the numbers, and from what I remember of the WJC that Marcus benefits a lot from having his big brother on the ice. I am assuming that they play together—do they not? It will be good to see what happens when they are separated.

...or bad.

I liked what I saw from him in the WJC. He was all around the net and had excellent vision, which helped greatly in his passing game.

However, I thought he was one of the weaker guys on the ice. I know he's still quite young yet, but boy was he scrawny.

As Metro Gnome said, he was weak along the boards and in the corners.

I hope with greater size comes greater confidence in board battles against larger defencemen. It just makes me think that a couple of years in the CHL (preferably the OHL or WHL) wouldn't be so awful for his development.

[BloodFetish]

Does anyone know what's going on with Bjorklund?

Hockey DB does not have any stats for him this year.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=101279

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Does anyone know what's going on with Bjorklund?

Hockey DB does not have any stats for him this year.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=101279

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=7101

He's played for two Allsvenskan teams so far this season.


FTR - He was supposed to be signed by June of last year (same as Erixon) but the Flames elected not to. He is now basically a free agent.

[devo22]

wasn't Bjorklund once called the "new Loob" or something like that? Too bad he turned out to be a bust.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by devo22

wasn't Bjorklund once called the "new Loob" or something like that? Too bad he turned out to be a bust.

I never heard that comparison, don't see it either. Loob had skill to burn, Bjorklund is more of a big power forward, with a nice shot and questionable skating, at least going off scouting reports as I've never actually seen him play myself.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Is there a reason Bill Arnold is listed on HockeyDB as having been on the Gatineau Olympiques roster this year? Here's the link: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...66&encode=TRUE

Just thought it was weird to see that. Also, Johnny Gaudreau has passed Bill Arnold on Boston College scoring. Gaudreau is now tied for 2nd on the team while Arnold is 5th. Not a huge deal, just goes to show that Gaudreau could be the real deal.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

...or bad.

I liked what I saw from him in the WJC. He was all around the net and had excellent vision, which helped greatly in his passing game.

However, I thought he was one of the weaker guys on the ice. I know he's still quite young yet, but boy was he scrawny.

As Metro Gnome said, he was weak along the boards and in the corners.

I hope with greater size comes greater confidence in board battles against larger defencemen. It just makes me think that a couple of years in the CHL (preferably the OHL or WHL) wouldn't be so awful for his development.

How would coming over to play junior hockey affect someone like Granlund's playing/contract/ status? In other words, would it better if the Flames were to sign him, and not bring him over until he is ready? That way, if he isn't ready until he's 21/22 (maybe longer) to play in the NHL, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the Flames to keep him in Europe so he doesn't become an RFA then a UFA too quickly... if that makes any sense? I'm obviously a little unsure of the rule regarding players who are drafted by a team but are kept in Europe until they are ready.

By the way, I'm guessing the Flames have to sign Granlund within the two years of drafting him, right?

[Jing]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am starting to wonder if Granlund might be a better prospect with a higher top-end than Backlund. He appears to be enjoying more success at a higher level in Europe than Backlund did at his age, and had a terrific WJC this last year as well. Is he as good as he appears, or is part of this a product of playing with his brother on a very good team? As someone who has the chance to watch him semi-regularly, I'm interested to know what your impression of Granlund is in the longer term.

From my limited viewing of Granlund (world juniors), I would say he benefits a lot from playing with his brother, whereas Backlund was creating a lot of the offense himself. I still view Backlund as having a higher ceiling than Granlund.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

How would coming over to play junior hockey affect someone like Granlund's playing/contract/ status? In other words, would it better if the Flames were to sign him, and not bring him over until he is ready? That way, if he isn't ready until he's 21/22 (maybe longer) to play in the NHL, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the Flames to keep him in Europe so he doesn't become an RFA then a UFA too quickly... if that makes any sense? I'm obviously a little unsure of the rule regarding players who are drafted by a team but are kept in Europe until they are ready.

European players who come over to NA to play in the CHL do not burn contract years because they are not playing in a professional league. Theoretically, if Granlund and the Flames decide that a season in Canadian Juniour would be best for his development, he could come over without having to sign a contract with the Flames, and would still remain Flames property until 2013. However, if he made that kind of commitment, I would be surprised if the Flames didn't sign him.

All of this is probably moot, though, as someone mentioned that he will need to fulfill a year of military service first.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Is there a reason Bill Arnold is listed on HockeyDB as having been on the Gatineau Olympiques roster this year? Here's the link: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...66&encode=TRUE

Gatineau holds Arnold's CHL rights.

I noticed the QMJHL website has a stat page for Arnold too. Not sure if Gatineau did some paperwork so that Arnold is available to join the team just in case Arnold decides to leave college or if they have a pending deal for Arnold to come join them.

Seems unlikely though as Gatineau is 13th in the QMJHL right now and doesn't look like they will be going far this season.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am starting to wonder if Granlund might be a better prospect with a higher top-end than Backlund. He appears to be enjoying more success at a higher level in Europe than Backlund did at his age, and had a terrific WJC this last year as well. Is he as good as he appears, or is part of this a product of playing with his brother on a very good team? As someone who has the chance to watch him semi-regularly, I'm interested to know what your impression of Granlund is in the longer term.

Since Backlund hasn't developed this year, it's tempting to say that the younger player has a higher ceiling. Tough to say. Granlund could well be more talented offensively, and he's already more succesful in his native country than Backlund was, but Mikael is an NHL player and Markus may never be good enough overall to get to the highest level.

I don't watch the finnish league nearly enough to act as an expert. Ideally the finnish updates would be made by someone who watches regularly. I could say a couple of things. First of all, the brother's haven't been so magical together in every game. And second, it seems to me that Markus has been scoring with other players as well, especially lately. It's certainly not just him connecting with his brother, even when they're on the same line.

I assume Markus has military next summer and during next season like his brother did this year. Also school. So I don't see him playing junior in NA nor do I see any reason for him to do that. Sometimes people forget that the prospects in Europe have a lot going on at this point in their careers. Consider how much Mikael has had on his plate this season: military service, finishing school, U20 national team, men's national team in the spring (he skipped the other tournaments), media demands being that he's one of the most interesting players in Finland, while at the same time being the MVP of his team. So when he looked a little less energetic at the WJC than we would have liked, I felt for him. Markus isn't going to have it nearly as tough but it's still going to be a challenge.

[Henry Fool]

As for impressions, I think he's much harder to read than his brother who has such clear strengths and a definite quality as a player. WJC gave a pretty good idea in some sense as long as you remember that his line wasn't as good as everyone expected. They're not the Sedins, they're different players, and it's not clear whether or not they have any special chemistry beyond what any two players can develop.

Markus' offensive skills seem better than many thought they are, and it's been a surprise how well he's been able to continue in the men's league since he's not that developed overall yet. He needs strength, obviously. His shot shows more promise than I expected, not just a passer. Two-way play needs a lot of work but I would let him gain confidence as a scorer before sending him to Troy Ward or whoever. Shouldn't be too hasty with this type of prospect. Let him fill out and become someone who can live with the responsibilty of being a scorer. The Flames don't need an undersized third liner and if it's just defense, defense, defense at this point simply because it's his weakness, he might lose the mentality that he's out there to score and the even the ability to take on the burden of being expected to score.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Since Backlund hasn't developed this year, it's tempting to say that the younger player has a higher ceiling. Tough to say. Granlund could well be more talented offensively, and he's already more succesful in his native country than Backlund was, but Mikael is an NHL player and Markus may never be good enough overall to get to the highest level.

I don't watch the finnish league nearly enough to act as an expert. Ideally the finnish updates would be made by someone who watches regularly. I could say a couple of things. First of all, the brother's haven't been so magical together in every game. And second, it seems to me that Markus has been scoring with other players as well, especially lately. It's certainly not just him connecting with his brother, even when they're on the same line.

I assume Markus has military next summer and during next season like his brother did this year. Also school. So I don't see him playing junior in NA nor do I see any reason for him to do that. Sometimes people forget that the prospects in Europe have a lot going on at this point in their careers. Consider how much Mikael has had on his plate this season: military service, finishing school, U20 national team, men's national team in the spring (he skipped the other tournaments), media demands being that he's one of the most interesting players in Finland, while at the same time being the MVP of his team. So when he looked a little less energetic at the WJC than we would have liked, I felt for him. Markus isn't going to have it nearly as tough but it's still going to be a challenge.

First, Backlund has developed this year. He's going through the so called sophomore slump for the same reason other players do; he's up against harder competition and as such has to develop in terms of defensive play and driving the play north and therefore doesn't manage to score any more than previous years. Most players don't break out until their 3rd or 4th year in the NHL, with the 4th year commonly being very close (within 25%) to their productivity throughout their prime, although usually not their peak. This applies to players who get 20 points in their 1st year and those who get 50 in their 1st year. If Backlund doesn't take a step forward next year on the score-sheet, then you have a reason to be concerned, but right now it's not really an accurate indication of his skill or compete level.

However, I do agree that in general you give the benefit of the doubt to the younger player as they have more time to develop. I think Granlund may very well have a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund since he's more successful at the same age than Backlund. He seems to score at a higher rate than Backlund has throughout his career as well. However, we've seen it before that some players suffer more than other going to the smaller ice surface. MPS in Edmonton is finally getting things going after having to adjust to the NHL and North American game. I'd expect Granlund to go through similar growing pains if he ends up coming over to play.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

As for impressions, I think he's much harder to read than his brother who has such clear strengths and a definite quality as a player. WJC gave a pretty good idea in some sense as long as you remember that his line wasn't as good as everyone expected. They're not the Sedins, they're different players, and it's not clear whether or not they have any special chemistry beyond what any two players can develop.

Markus' offensive skills seem better than many thought they are, and it's been a surprise how well he's been able to continue in the men's league since he's not that developed overall yet. He needs strength, obviously. His shot shows more promise than I expected, not just a passer. Two-way play needs a lot of work but I would let him gain confidence as a scorer before sending him to Troy Ward or whoever. Shouldn't be too hasty with this type of prospect. Let him fill out and become someone who can live with the responsibilty of being a scorer. The Flames don't need an undersized third liner and if it's just defense, defense, defense at this point simply because it's his weakness, he might lose the mentality that he's out there to score and the even the ability to take on the burden of being expected to score.

I think Troy Ward would help his confidence as much as any other coach in any other country. He seems to be fantastic at helping players fix their weaknesses, mental, physical, or otherwise, and does so without trying to get the players to play defense only (he want players to play on their toes). I hope that when he's 20 he comes over, spends a season in the AHL with Troy Ward, and ends up becoming a good 2 way, top 6 player for Calgary in 3 or 4 years.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Just curious - in that league what is considered 'good' stats for a goalie?

In the NHL the best goalies are above .920 and below 2.20 - is the Finnish league roughly comparable?

I'd say it's similar enough. Ortio would be in the top-10 with his stats if the sample size wasn't too small.

Some stats to give an idea, sv% and gaa:
http://www.sm-liiga.fi/tilastot/koko...i&b=rs&s=11-12
http://www.sm-liiga.fi/tilastot/koko...u&b=rs&s=11-12

--------------------------------------------

Ortio's game just ended. He got a shutout in a 3-0 win against the team that's first in the standings, 26 saves, second star. A nice bounce back from the previous game, and good to see he's still starting.

EDIT: I should add that Ortio also got his first point of the season with a long pass. You can see the pass at about 1:00 in this video:

http://www.nelonenpro.fi/j%C3%A4%C3%...pa-tps-2322012

Second shutout in 6 games, his numbers improve to .933 and 2.00.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

I think Troy Ward would help his confidence as much as any other coach in any other country. He seems to be fantastic at helping players fix their weaknesses, mental, physical, or otherwise, and does so without trying to get the players to play defense only (he want players to play on their toes). I hope that when he's 20 he comes over, spends a season in the AHL with Troy Ward, and ends up becoming a good 2 way, top 6 player for Calgary in 3 or 4 years.

I was specifically talking about his confidence as a scorer. It just so happens that he's in a pretty good situation right now, being able to contribute offensively more than anyone expected. Like I said, in my opinion he has to become a scorer first before they completely turn the focus on his weaknesses, and I think that Ward would not be as forgiving as his current team is. Which is not to say he won't be working on every aspect of his game, it's just that I don't want to see him benched for half a season during a crucial time in his development because he's too underdeveloped to play the game the way Ward wants him to. There's no hurry.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

First, Backlund has developed this year. He's going through the so called sophomore slump for the same reason other players do; he's up against harder competition and as such has to develop in terms of defensive play and driving the play north and therefore doesn't manage to score any more than previous years. Most players don't break out until their 3rd or 4th year in the NHL, with the 4th year commonly being very close (within 25%) to their productivity throughout their prime, although usually not their peak. This applies to players who get 20 points in their 1st year and those who get 50 in their 1st year. If Backlund doesn't take a step forward next year on the score-sheet, then you have a reason to be concerned, but right now it's not really an accurate indication of his skill or compete level.

However, I do agree that in general you give the benefit of the doubt to the younger player as they have more time to develop. I think Granlund may very well have a higher offensive ceiling than Backlund since he's more successful at the same age than Backlund. He seems to score at a higher rate than Backlund has throughout his career as well. However, we've seen it before that some players suffer more than other going to the smaller ice surface. MPS in Edmonton is finally getting things going after having to adjust to the NHL and North American game. I'd expect Granlund to go through similar growing pains if he ends up coming over to play.

I expected a 40-50 point season from Backlund and I don't see much development compared to last year. Before this season I could see him improve but I can't honestly say that this year.

My intention wasn't to give the impression that I prefer Granlund over him or that I think the former is necessarily more talented than the latter. It's an open question, and I think the player who has already shown he can play in NA has to be seen as more successful. I just pointed out that there's a temptation to see the younger player as more talented simply because you're looking at unfulfilled potential against someone who's already had to do whatever it takes to get to the NHL.

[Ashasx]

If anyone cares, Reinhart and the Ice are playing on Sportsnet tonight at 6.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If anyone cares, Reinhart and the Ice are playing on Sportsnet tonight at 6.

I think I may have asked this before, but I can't remember and am too lazy to search if I have, but I would have thought Reinhart would have had more points this year. Does he not have the linemates?

How has his play been. I get a feeling that he is more of a two-way player than just an offensive type player, but I've only seen him play on tv a couple times.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

I think I may have asked this before, but I can't remember and am too lazy to search if I have, but I would have thought Reinhart would have had more points this year. Does he not have the linemates?

How has his play been. I get a feeling that he is more of a two-way player than just an offensive type player, but I've only seen him play on tv a couple times.

It's difficult to say. Max is certainly one of the better two-way centres in the WHL, I think. His brother Sam, however, is dynamic and will be the #1 pick in the 2014 draft, and he's had an unreal 2nd half of the season so far, so he's moved up the depth chart.

Max in on pace for a slightly better season than he had last year while continuing strong defensive play. I think he's be just fine.