When faith is shaken . . . .

[Cowperson]

Interesting story in the LA Times today about DNA testing rocking the Mormon Church . . . . .

From the time he was a child in Peru, the Mormon Church instilled in Jose A. Loayza the conviction that he and millions of other Native Americans were descended from a lost tribe of Israel that reached the New World more than 2,000 years ago.

"We were taught all the blessings of that Hebrew lineage belonged to us and that we were special people," said Loayza, now a Salt Lake City attorney. "It not only made me feel special, but it gave me a sense of transcendental identity, an identity with God."

A few years ago, Loayza said, his faith was shaken and his identity stripped away by DNA evidence showing that the ancestors of American natives came from Asia, not the Middle East.

"I've gone through stages," he said. "Absolutely denial. Utter amazement and surprise. Anger and bitterness."

For Mormons, the lack of discernible Hebrew blood in Native Americans is no minor collision between faith and science. It burrows into the historical foundations of the Book of Mormon, a 175-year-old transcription that the church regards as literal and without error.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ostemailedlink

Cowperson

[CaramonLS]

I recommend that everyone watch the South Park episode about the Mormon faith.

[troutman]

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas. The Book of Mormon describes a civilization lasting for a thousand years, covering both North and South America, which was familiar with horses, elephants, cattle, sheep, wheat, barley, steel, wheeled vehicles, shipbuilding, sails, coins, and other elements of Old World culture. But no trace of any of these supposedly very common things has ever been found in the Americas of that period. Nor does the Book of Mormon mention many of the features of the civilizations which really did exist at that time in the Americas. The LDS church has spent millions of dollars over many years trying to prove through archaeological research that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical record, but they have failed to produce any convincing pre-columbian archeological evidence supporting the Book of Mormon story. In addition, whereas the Book of Mormon presents the picture of a relatively homogeneous people, with a single language and communication between distant parts of the Americas, the pre-columbian history of the Americas shows the opposite: widely disparate racial types (almost entirely east Asian - definitely not Semitic, as proven by recent DNA studies), and many unrelated native languages, none of which are even remotely related to Hebrew or Egyptian.

[StoneCole]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I recommend that everyone watch the South Park episode about the Mormon faith.

"You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck my balls."

[STeeLy]

I'm lucky I am a Catholic, not Mormon.

But wow, the Theory of the Bearing (sp?) Land Bridge may be true afterall.

How the Native Americans (Canada's First Nation, US Aboriginals and even down in south Americas) actually came through Russia into the New World.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I recommend that everyone watch the South Park episode about the Mormon faith.

I watched that episode with my former-roommate (an ex-Mormon) wondering how accurate their depiction of the history of the Mormon church was. According to him, how South Park described it was pretty much what he was taught as a kid.

That being said, the rest of his family (who are still practicing Mormons) were some of the kindest and most generous people I've ever met. In fact, almost every Mormon I have met has been that way. It's a shame that the great things about the religion, such as the way they really focus on caring for other people, gets muddled together with the craziness of Joe Smith's claims (that native Americans were a lost tribe of Israel who sailed across the Atlantic centuries ago, etc.).

[arsenal]

On that exmormon.org site, there is very good article (can't find the link right now) written by an australian mormon scientist. Basically he grew up mormon, and took what they church said at blind faith. Then he did his own investigation, and come to his own conclusions that what the book of mormon had been saying was wrong all along.
It is very detailed in his feelings and thoughts during the time that he realizes that what the church had been telling him this entire time, is completely and utterly false.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

It's a shame that the great things about the religion, such as the way they really focus on caring for other people, gets muddled together with the craziness of Joe Smith's claims (that native Americans were a lost tribe of Israel who sailed across the Atlantic centuries ago, etc.).

They really are some pretty "out there" ideas. Especially the one about how the history of North America was revealed to Smith by the magic rock in his hat.

This is the thing arsenal mentioned. It is an interesting story to say the least.

http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

I'm lucky I am a Catholic, not Mormon.

But wow, the Theory of the Bearing (sp?) Land Bridge may be true afterall.

How the Native Americans (Canada's First Nation, US Aboriginals and even down in south Americas) actually came through Russia into the New World.

Oh boy...Im a bitin my tongue...I really am Cowperson...

Ok Ok...STeely...please tell us why?

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This is the thing arsenal mentioned. It is an interesting story to say the least.
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm

That's the one. Thanks Rouge.

[Cheese]

Critics want the church to admit its mistake and apologize to millions of Native Americans it converted. Church leaders have shown no inclination to do so. Indeed, they have dismissed as heresy any suggestion that Native American genetics undermine the Mormon creed.

The arrogance of the LDS will certainly lead to its eventual downfall. What amazes me is the fact there has never been any proof of anything that was uttered by Smith yet thousands of seemingly educated people buy into the hypocrisy. You can be nice, treat your neighbors with love, donate, help others and be what you want to be without a lie assisting you....
I dont think the LDS will be alone in their dismissals.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I recommend that everyone watch the South Park episode about the Mormon faith.

The Scientology one as well. They are both available on Youtube.

As for LDS, I can't believe my Dentist buys into this stuff.

The God-fearing Nephites were "pure" (the word was officially changed from "white" in 1981) and "delightsome." The idol-worshiping Lamanites received the "curse of blackness," turning their skin dark.

According to the Book of Mormon, by 385 AD the dark-skinned Lamanites had wiped out other Hebrews. The Mormon church called the victors "the principal ancestors of the American Indians." If the Lamanites returned to the church, their skin could once again become white.

Dentists basically do the same thing as medical students in medical school for their first year. Doesn't he realize skin pigmentation is just a result of evolution to allow people in northern climates to absorb more Vitamin D from less sunshine?

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Oh boy...Im a bitin my tongue...I really am Cowperson...

Ok Ok...STeely...please tell us why?

Why, because we don't get controversies like where we're from. It seemed like the Mormon went down to the South Americas and told them that they are a lost tribe of Israel whereas Catholics... we don't tell you where you're from, you know exact where you're from (thats why Catholic means universal) and also same with many protestants. Of course there are also rumors about mormons that somewhat disgusts me.

[calf]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

Why, because we don't get controversies like where we're from.

nope - if we've learned anything, Catholics are immune from controversy...

[Hack&Lube]

STeeLy, tell me something. As a catholic - do you believe in the big bang or evolution?

[STeeLy]

Religion without Science is blind, that is true. However, science could not prove neither the big bang theory nor the evolution theory, so I can't say I believe in neither.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

STeeLy, tell me something. As a catholic - do you believe in the big bang or evolution?

I'm no STeeLy but I'll bite. I believe in evolution, there is no conflict between Genesis and the Evolution theory. The Vatican has stated as much. The Big Bang Theory is only believed and preached by fundamentalists nutjobs, please do not lump the sensible Catholics with the fundamentalists who insists that you must believe what they say or you're going to hell.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

Religion without Science is blind, that is true. However, science could not prove neither the big bang theory nor the evolution theory, so I can't say I believe in neither.

...and science without religion is lame ~Einstein.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

...and science without religion is lame ~Einstein.

I always remember that first part but never that second part.

There is also another thing that Einstein said that was quite meaningful, though it is more of a rumor than anything else...

Its a pretty long read... but I think for those religious people out there... u'd find it to be a pretty meaningful thing.

http://www.buysellfind.net/john33/evil.htm

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

STeeLy, tell me something. As a catholic - do you believe in the big bang or evolution?

I believe the Vatican has publicly stated that the scientific evidence for both theories is very strong, therefore it would be foolish to ignore it. Certainly that's the case with evolution; I'm not sure about the Big Bang.

Oddly enough, the Catholic Church is probably the most "pro science" of the major Christian denominations. Only religious fundamentalists who take a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible are closed to accepting scientific theories which contradict Genesis. Catholic dogma holds a more metaphorical view of the Bible, or at least the creation story.