Justin Trudeau dosen't help the Liberal cause

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You made the point that the provinces know what is best for THEIR people. Are we not all Canadian? What does that even mean? Apparently not a lot if the Provincial Governments are the be all end all.

The provincial government should be the be all end all for a lot of things, like health care.

Canada is functioning rather well right now with the powers as they are being delegated to the individual provinces. Trudeau may have never wanted that, but it is the best thing he created.

If you want an example of what stronger central government will give you, move to the US with their bloated government and inability to properly govern.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You have to admit that the Liberal's have certainly not helped their cause out here.

Trudeau hated Alberta and part of the NEP was punative

Chretien basically stated that he hated dealing with Albertan's and stated that he didn't understand us, he never tried to bridge that gap. He was also punative in punishing Calgary when he shut down CFB Calgary and moved it to Edmonton to support Anne McClellon (sp?) because he decided that Calgarian's wouldn't vote for him. He made little to no effort to campaign here.

Martin made flowery rhetoric about getting Alberta to the table, but his idea of campaigning here was a fuel stop on the way to B.C.

Even Dion made sure that his policies (Environmental) specifically were designed to go after Alberta while leaving Ontario's manufacturing section alone.

The Liberal's have made next to no effort to heal the wounds caused by PET in his heyday, its not like Albertan's are going to trust them on faith.

The Liberal's have done nothing to include Alberta when they were in power, less when they were campaigning and its no wonder that there's a serious mistrust.

Blame the Liberal's don't blame us.

I wish I could hit the "thanks" button 100 times. Dion advocating for the carbon cap and trade policy was nothing more than trying to steal from money from Alberta. Plain and simple. It was so blatant it was insulting, but him being a typical Liberal leader from Quebec, he simply didn't care.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

The provincial government should be the be all end all for a lot of things, like health care.

Canada is functioning rather well right now with the powers as they are being delegated to the individual provinces. Trudeau may have never wanted that, but it is the best thing he created.

If you want an example of what stronger central government will give you, move to the US with their bloated government and inability to properly govern.

Huh? A major part of the U.S. problems is the fact that states don't have to obey many aspects of federal legislation, and often don't for purely political purposes.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Huh? A major part of the U.S. problems is the fact that states don't have to obey many aspects of federal legislation, and often don't for purely political purposes.

Like what exactly? If anything all the Federal Government should be doing is developing a guideline that each individual states should follow, and then allow them to do so however they want.

Especially with something like healthcare. I shudder to think of how bad our healthcare system would be if the Federal Government ran it, instead of each individual province having their own system that adheres to the Canada Health Act.

There are things the Federal Government should look after, and things the Provincial Government should look after. I think Canada has done a very good job in that line. Much better than the US.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Azure

Kyoto is a stupid agreement that nobody was going to obey anyways.

There was no point in staying part of it. Harper pulled out because of that, and because it is ridiculous that a lot of European countries are targeting our oil sands as a source of bad emissions, while ignoring what countries like India and China do.

Kyoto was never an environmental treaty. It was always completely and exclusively about wealth redistribution. Fully developed industrial nations were expected to pay while nations like China and India - the worlds largest polluters, but still growing economies - were exempt. Funnel money from the first world to the second to the third. Kyoto was a joke, and Chretien was a moron to sign on. Harper's fault was not pulling out of that idiotic accord, but in not having a decent Canadian environmental policy to replace it.

Originally Posted by Azure

Like what exactly? If anything all the Federal Government should be doing is developing a guideline that each individual states should follow, and then allow them to do so however they want.

Especially with something like healthcare. I shudder to think of how bad our healthcare system would be if the Federal Government ran it, instead of each individual province having their own system that adheres to the Canada Health Act.

There are things the Federal Government should look after, and things the Provincial Government should look after. I think Canada has done a very good job in that line. Much better than the US.

You'll never get anything like that to happen without changing the US Constitution, and there is no chance the states ever agree.

[Azure]

Oh I agree. I find it rather funny how Americans have mocked our 'socialist' system for years, yet we delegate WAY more responsibilities to the provinces than they do to their states, despite their so-called 10th amendment.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

And that is a total political construct that continues to get play in Alberta 30 years later.

Look at the full-time Liberal leaders since the turn of the 20th century:

Laurier: Quebec Francophone
MacKenzie King: Represented Toronto in Commons (though he thought highly of the prairies, especially Alberta)
St. Laurent: Quebec Francophone
Pearson: Toronto born, represented a central Ontario riding
Trudeau: Quebec Francophone
Turner: English born, represented Vancouver
Chretien: Quebec Francophone
Martin: Ontaro-born, Quebec based
Dion: Quebec Francophone
Ignatieff: Toronto born American

Turner, the lamest duck we've ever had as PM, is the only Liberal leader who did not have close ties to Toronto or Quebec. The argument that the Liberals don't care much about about the rest of the country is not a political construct. It is embedded in that party's DNA.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You are confusing personal views of Harper with party views of the Conservatives. Abandoning the Kyoto wealth redistribution treaty was always a plank of the Tory platform. Canadians voted them in knowing that was one of the outcomes of electing a Conservative government.

I think Harper's personal views are in lockstep with his party on that example.

I highly doubt revoking Kyoto was explicit in the party platform and don't see it in 2011 election campaign document. Besides being explicit about revoking Kyoto would be bad federal politics. It may pander to the Alberta base but hardly a winning issue in voter rich BC, ON or QC.

The only semblance of a climate policy towards green house gas emissions in that document is this arbitrary and unenforceable goal (page 41 of "Here for Canada" platform):

aligned our climate-change targets with those of the Obama Administration – our goal is a 17-percent reduction in domestic greenhouse gas emissions from 2005 levels by 2020;

As an aside, I get a chuckle on how the Tories try to latch themselves to the Americans by "...align(ing) climate change targets with those of Obama..."

Geesh, have some self respect...or maybe it's good politics to seem to be like Obama in Canada or seem to be bilateral.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Look at the full-time Liberal leaders since the turn of the 20th century:

Laurier: Quebec Francophone
MacKenzie King: Represented Toronto in Commons (though he thought highly of the prairies, especially Alberta)
St. Laurent: Quebec Francophone
Pearson: Toronto born, represented a central Ontario riding
Trudeau: Quebec Francophone
Turner: English born, represented Vancouver
Chretien: Quebec Francophone
Martin: Ontaro-born, Quebec based
Dion: Quebec Francophone
Ignatieff: Toronto born American

Turner, the lamest duck we've ever had as PM, is the only Liberal leader who did not have close ties to Toronto or Quebec. The argument that the Liberals don't care much about about the rest of the country is not a political construct. It is embedded in that party's DNA.

Population distribution probably has nothing to do with it either. You know Harper is from Ontario too right?

[MarchHare]

Turner, the lamest duck we've ever had as PM

Surely you mean Kim Campbell!

[grizz29]

The kid is an idiot. Hopefully he will never be PM.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You have to admit that the Liberal's have certainly not helped their cause out here.

Martin made flowery rhetoric about getting Alberta to the table, but his idea of campaigning here was a fuel stop on the way to B.C.


The Liberal's have done nothing to include Alberta when they were in power, less when they were campaigning...

I've snipped this post down, just to address a few things.

First, I do agree that the Liberals haven't helped themselves out in Alberta. Its a catch 22 though; do you spend money and time campaigning in a place where the population refuses to let go of a policy that is 30 years old? (and a policy that I'm convinced most citizens are against and couldn't tell you what it was at the same time!) In all seriousness putting a lot of energy here from a nationwide perspective makes little sense.

I also don't know what you would have the Liberals do to include Alberta more when they were in power? They slotted the MPs from here into cabinet posts and basically treated Alberta no different from any other province as far as I can recall? What specific example is there of this lack of response is there, that has suddenly been corrected with the CPC?

Frankly I barely notice a discernible difference between the Chretien/Martin years and the Harper years (except that back then we had balanced budgets). Otherwise though, there haven't been any significant changes. You might point to that as a point for Harper, but in reality it shows how well things were running under the Liberals at the same time.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Population distribution probably has nothing to do with it either. You know Harper is from Ontario too right?

Born but not based.

And no, population distribution does not explain how the Liberals actively ignore half the country when picking the people that lead it. It is just one reason why the Liberals have such a huge credibility problem in the prairies.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Born but not based.

And no, population distribution does not explain how the Liberals actively ignore half the country when picking the people that lead it. It is just one reason why the Liberals have such a huge credibility problem in the prairies.

I didn't realized that moving to Alberta after University implied you weren't raised yet.

[Sr. Mints]

Originally Posted by karl262

Specifically, what is it about Harper that some of the posters here don't like?

I don't like the way he parts his hair, then wraps it around his head on the other side.

[Yeah_Baby]

I like how he doesn't look like he's going to kill this kitten at all.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I didn't realized that moving to Alberta after University implied you weren't raised yet.

And where did I say "raised"?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And where did I say "raised"?

I read based as raised. Apologies.

[Resolute 14]

Victory.jpg !

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Victory.jpg !

I'll get you next time Gadget. Next time!