Kind of an odd question:

[StoneCole]

forever young is on the radio now.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I know people that argue draught makes them loopier anyway. Would it just be a draught beer thing, or a Dome thing?

[toonmaster]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Also toonmaster please explain to me the chemistry of getting an oxide compound from the addition of nitrogen. That just makes absolutely no sense.

because it is being forced through pressurized lines, where ever it comes from, some of the nitrogen gas will become dissolved within the carbonated liquid. When the gas dissolves it mixes in with the carbonation, which contains oxygen, and forms oxides (NO, NO2) along with many other things

when it gets poured, the change in pressure releases the carbonation, releasing these oxides (the bubbling effect) so when you go to drink your beer you are first off inhaling the released carbonation, as well as ingesting the trapped components still within the beer

same idea as hand pumping a keg really hard and fast, you are forcing a ton of air into the beer so when you pour after a rough pump all you get is head

now im not saying that this is strictly the result of the heroin effect, matter of fact i am sure they have to follow strict guidelines to the purity, amount, pressure etc. of the nitrogen, and it probably has little to no effect on the person and their buzz compared to the atmosphere, amount of energy exerted (stair climbing) but the possible effects of NO within the beer could explain the heroin beer

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Yeah, somehow I don't think that nitrogen has a really high affinity to reacting with carbon dioxide to for NOx at room temperatures. If that were the case, I'm thinking CO2 emmisions causing global warming would be a lot less of an issue. Also, I doubt cars and industry would have to go to such great lenghts to reduce their NOx emmissions if the CO2 they release was just going to react with the nitrogen in the air to produce it anyway.

[ken0042]

Just spitballing here, but I know from scuba diving that Nitrogen can cause Nitrogen Narcosis. Could injesting nitrogen that has been disolved in beer enter the blood stream? And that excess nitrogen then cause a state of Nitorgen Narcosis?

I haven't dived deep enough to experience it first hand, but apparently at around 130 feet you just get loopy; you can't add 2+3.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Sorry Ken, but I'm thinking that the nitrogen (if it is even used) isn't the cause of any Heroin Beer effect.

What's more likely, that nitrogen would enter your blood stream through the small ammount disolved in the beer or the 79% of every breath that you breath in. Besides Nitrogen narcosis, is dependant on high pressures and before anyone comes up with "Well the nitrogen and beer are under pressure" don't bother. Once the beer is open, everthing in it is at atmospheric pressure. Besides, Nitrogen Narcosis is a conditino caused by your body and the air you're breathing being at very high pressures, so unless the saddledome is pressured up to 4 or so atmospheres I don't think that is the problem.

As I said before, I love the Heroin beer, and I for some reason tend to get drunk off of it faster as well, but I'm guessing it's more of a placeob effect than anything else.

[Dr_Hook]

I know about Nitrogen Narcosis from diving too. It is always the first thing that comes to mind when people mention nitrogen in the lines. Is this the cause for heroin beer, I don't know, but definitely something to think about.

I decided to look it up on wikipedia:

"Nitrogen narcosis or inert gas narcosis is a reversible alteration in consciousness producing a state similar to alcohol intoxication in SCUBA divers at depths beyond 30m. Jacques Cousteau famously described it as the "rapture of the deep". Its precise mechanism is not well understood, but it appears to be a direct effect of high nitrogen pressure on nerve transmission. While it was first observed with nitrogen (in air), other gases including argon and hydrogen also cause very similar effects under high enough pressure. Xenon is actually a usable anaesthetic at atmospheric pressure, though it is too expensive to be used in practice.
The onset is hard to recognize, its severity is unpredictable, and it can kill, from its own toxic effect or due to the resulting illogical behaviour. However the cure for nitrogen narcosis is a simple one, as effects disappear upon ascending to shallower waters."

Also found this further on in the definition, hmmm

"Experts recommend total abstinence at least 24 hours before diving, and longer for heavy drinking. Alcohol combined with nitrogen is likely to bring on a far more serious case of narcosis. This is yet another good reason for not drinking and diving."

Could be a possibility, but who knows?

[RougeUnderoos]

Now I'm no chemicist but if the Saddledome is putting nitrogen (or anything else) into the beer that makes it extra-strong, wouldn't that technically be a, umm, large-scale poisoning?

I really don't see them doing that. It is rather dangerous after all. And it sure could open up a can of worms for the next guy (Canucks fan no doubt) that gets dinged for DUI after a Flames game.

[RedMan12]

The beer at the Dome definetely get me supper hammered.
I went to a couple games with my cousin and before the game we slammed down some Royal Reserve, did a couple hoots of the green and then walked up all the stairs to the Sportchek zone. After we started double fisting beers before the game started. After about the third trip I almost blacked out when they turned out lights and all the players came on. I focused and drank more Saddledome beer and came to. I love Calgary!

I live in Canuck land and going to games at GM Place sucks. The fans don't care if you stand up and yell Cloutier sucks! The worst part is the beer is like $8 for 1 watered down nasty Canadian. It takes so much money to get drunk! I have to drink heavily before going to a game at GM Place to make up for it. At least when I went there this season there was lots Calgary fans around!

[Circa89]

I personally believe the Heroin Beer phenomena occurs as a result of excessive stimuli while drinking. Is it not the same effect as having afternoon beers? I know most people can have a couple of beers in a beer garden in say a Lilac Fest or the Stampede and feel way more intoxicated than if there were to have the same number of beers that evening at a Bar.
Because the Saddledome has lots of lighting (as opposed to a bar) and many more stimuli we are out of our conditioned environment while normally intoxicated. I believe that we just aren't used to being "buzzed" in a setting where acute perception and attention are required to follow the game. Besides there are no play by play analysist telling us whats going on and we can't figure it out for ourselves.

[JohnnyTitan]

I heart Heroin Beer !!

There is something going on with the beer, and as someone else noted it doesn't seem to be the environment as you don't get as drunk on canned beer / high-balls / snuck-in-flask.

Two of those babies per period will send even the most accomplished drinkers reeling. There are many good arguements above and I'm not about to shed any scientific light on the subject...but I do want to support the stance that this beer is insane.

We've heard from Vancouver...are their draft beers in any other rinks that have a similar effect? Edmonton? Ottawa? Are we the only place in the league blessed with "Super-Beer"? No wonder we have the best / loudest fans!! ;-)

[Rhettzky]

I think it's the size of the beer. If you drink beer at most pubs in Calgary they usually soak you when you ask for a pint (12-14 ounces) so it's hard to judge how a good 16 ounce pint of beer should make you feel. A can of beer is 12 ounces (355 mililiters) while a draft at the dome is 16 ounces (475 mililiters). So if you have a pint before the game and one for each period in cans that's 48 ounces (4 cans) and in draft it's 64 ounces (5.33 cans) or over a beer more in the same time frame.

Combine that with the probability of not eating as much as you normally would because you are actively watching a game and consuming beer and I'd say that's how you feel so tipsy.

I can't buy the sludge in the lines idea because I had a friend that served liquor at the dome and he told me that they do keep seperate kegs in the nose bleed seats (maybe all kiosks but I only asked him about the lines to the bleeders). And I've certainly felt the effects of heroin beer during a night of drinking up there.

[StoneCole]

One other thing...I love the taste of that beer. Some people I know don't like it, but it goes down and is probably the tastiest beer in town.

[Incogneto]

Someone should email Ken King about this....

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by toonmaster

same idea as hand pumping a keg really hard and fast, you are forcing a ton of air into the beer so when you pour after a rough pump all you get is head

boy, good thing you put the part about forcing a ton of air into the beer otherwise you woulda lost me

[4X4]

Originally Posted by toonmaster

after a rough pump all you get is head

It's her way of saying thank you. What more do you want?

[toonmaster]

ya i noticed that too......seeing if yall would pick up on that

[Kybosh]

Ok, just dropping in to dispell some myths about nitrogen. If nitrogen is injected into the beer I highly doubt there would be any side effects to the human body. As far as nitrogen being oxidized to NOx. . . . it is essentially impossible for this system. To successfully oxidize nitrogen you need approximately 1200 degrees celsius (standard ambient pressure) to break the nitrogen triple bond. The kegs are cool and no where near pressurized enough to do this. This type of stuff is typically seen in combustion (ie. some cars, airplanes etc.).

In labs (mine and others) we use nitrogen to maintain an inert atmosphere in the system because it is so unreactive (argon is better but way more expensive).

I'm also pretty skeptical of the nitrogen narcosis thing as well. Without constant pressure there is no way to maintain an elevated level of nitrogen in the body.

So all in all, chalk me up in the extra stimuli crowd. I don't necessarily think it is a placebo effect but it has something to do with the large wide open area, loud noises, bright colours etc.

I kinda feel like I'm in one of those "The more you know" commercials now.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Without constant pressure there is no way to maintain an elevated level of nitrogen in the body.

So, are you saying that once a scuba diver surfaces all excess nitrogen leaves his body? If that were to be the case, then why am I bothering with dive tables when I scuba dive?

[4X4]

I call BS.

Trust me when I say that I drink my fair share of beer (unless you wan to accuse me of drinking more than my fair share). The draft at the dome does me in like nothing else. It is like drinking glasses of wine. Seems like double the slcohol.

I can drink a 6er and still maintain an air of sobriety. 3 dome beers and I'm slurring. Something doesn't add up.

And another thing. Forget the placebo effect. This was apparent to me long before ever joining this board.