Will Israel launch unilateral air strikes to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities?

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well, that's the only down side to all this, is the civilian casualties. It's sad really, but that's the end result in a war I guess. Still, if two countries were to go to war, I would prefer their leaders be blood thirsty monkeys so at least we know one of them can get taken out.

Its nuclear warfare, does that mean anything to you?? Do you want WW3?

[grizz29]

Israel - trolling the middle east since 1948.

[JohnnyB]

The very idea that Iran is a threat to the West is being generated by Israel, and the U.S. as they follow in tow with the Israeli lobbies. It's phenomenally depressing that this direction is even being considered as it will be nothing but another aggressive war for political reasons.

People holding views like Puckluck's are sad to see. Easily confused and sold a line.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Its nuclear warfare, does that mean anything to you?? Do you want WW3?

Why are some posters saying it's a nuclear war? I haven't seen any mention of Israeli intent to drop nukes. There are plenty of ways to have a war without nukes....this has been happening for the last 60 years.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by _Q_

In my opinion, both countries are run by whacko nutjobs. If they want to fight each other, I say they are more than welcome to. Chances are they destroy one of them and the other one will get a serious ass kicking. All fine by me.

Nothing against you, but I really dislike this kind of sentiment. How could you not only accept, but fully encourage a situation that would result in the deaths of thousands of innocent people, thrust the entire region into incredible turmoil, AND likely drag the entire world with it? Do you have any idea what the destruction of either government would look like?

I'm not trying to be 'holier than thou', there definitely are situations where war is the only option, but this is not one of them. War between Iran and Israel would be horrific, protracted, and result in more problems than it would solve.

[Yasa]

Just a heads up guys. Although Mahmoud Ahmadinejad might be the President of Iran, he's not the supreme leader. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the Supreme Leader and essentially him and his Council of Guardians make the big decisions.

The president of Iran is pretty much the head of the executive branch, and used pretty much as the economic planner. Presidential influence on military decisions is minimal.

Yes, Ahmadinejad is irrational but it's not going to be by his hand that any nuclear war happens. As for Israel preemptively striking, I find it hard to believe this is anything beyond posturing.

Can you really blame Iran though? I'm not saying it's a good idea to make nuclear weapons (whether or not they are for sure is up for debate.) There's been war continuously in that region for 4 decades, and invasions by the USSR and the US in surrounding countries attempting to impose their own identity I'm not surprised they would be trying for powerful defense. The US didn't seem to have a problem with Pakistan obtaining nuclear weapons, and this is a country that harbored OBL.

MAD is the biggest detering factor, and I don't believe any country would be willing to risk it. No matter how insane they're precieved.

HOWEVER...the risk of Iran selling it to other organizations such as Hezbollah is higher than if they didn't have nuclear material at all. I have no idea how high the actually is, but it's been shown that Iran has no problem helping what are considered "terrorist organizations." Either way, preemptive strikes are not a viable solution.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by grizz29

Israel - trolling the middle east since 1948.

Do you care to expand on this thoughtful and well-informed post?

[Azure]

If they think the threat is real, they will act. Not sure it will be an airstrike though.

The US has the only bomber capable of launching that huge bunker buster, and according to a few reports they don't think it is big enough.

I'm not so sure the threat is real enough that Israel has to strike. If anything something like Stuxnet will bring down the Iran nuclear program, and we won't ever know it happened because Iran will deny it. We already don't know how much damage it did.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Why are some posters saying it's a nuclear war? I haven't seen any mention of Israeli intent to drop nukes. There are plenty of ways to have a war without nukes....this has been happening for the last 60 years.

What do you think the Iranian response would be to Israeli airstrikes? They may not resort to nukes, but they have enough crazy that the potential for that to happen is very real.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by puckluck

I must have missed the memo where my opinion made any difference on the outcome of this planet.

Exactly!

I mean, when was the last time that an ambivalent attitude towards human death and misery ever caused us any trouble???

[TurnedTheCorner]

Maybe!

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by valo403

What do you think the Iranian response would be to Israeli airstrikes? They may not resort to nukes, but they have enough crazy that the potential for that to happen is very real.

I think the Iranian leadership is crazy but not stupid. Iran (and Syria) has been attacking Israel, in one form or another, for decades. If they were to engage in an all-out war with Israel I don't think the prospects are good for Iran, and they know it. Also, they can no longer necessarily rely on some of their historical allies in the fight against Israel. Nations like Jordan and Egypt wouldn't necessarily jump into the fray this time.

As of right now, Iran does not have nuclear weapons or at least they don't have the capability to deliver a nuclear weapon to Israel. My belief is that Iran, as they tend to do, are sabre rattling more than anything else. However, it is not particularly wise to play chicken with a country like Israel that has an itchy trigger finger. It is very possible that Iran is trying to goad Israel to strike first in order to galvanize support in the region against Israel. It's been a common tactic used by many of the tyrants in the region in order to distract their own people from their oppressive regimes.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by valo403

What do you think the Iranian response would be to Israeli airstrikes? They may not resort to nukes, but they have enough crazy that the potential for that to happen is very real.

Sure, but you are making a lot of assumptions. My issue is with posters blindly stating "Israel attacks Iranian military structures = OMG WW3 NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE 2012".

As I said before, there are many ways to fight a war without nukes. 60 years of history would show this, despite one side always being labeled as "crazy"

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I think the Iranian leadership is crazy but not stupid. Iran (and Syria) has been attacking Israel, in one form or another, for decades. If they were to engage in an all-out war with Israel I don't think the prospects are good for Iran, and they know it. Also, they can no longer necessarily rely on some of their historical allies in the fight against Israel. Nations like Jordan and Egypt wouldn't necessarily jump into the fray this time.

- I honestly don't think the Iranian leadership is crazy in that way. They're desperate internally but they know the limit of their reach internationally. They disgustingly brutalized their own people because they knew they could without repercussion. That's the sign of a weak, desperate regime. Saddam did the same thing while occasionally badmouthing the West... when his bluff was called, he came clean, Blix put out report after report saying there was nothing there (which was evidently true), but no one bought it. You can be sure that none of these middle east leaders today are going to repeat Saddam's mistake. They'll ruin their own people, but they won't dare provoke the West in a meaningful fashion.

- Recent history suggests that Iran has much more reason to fear Israel than the other way around. All the world watched idly while Israel ruthlessly and inhumanely bombed the crap out of Lebanon. It's not lost upon Iran that if they do anything to incite an Israeli attack, they'll be pummeled while the world watches.

- It's really interesting to read all the internet cowboys strategizing about bombing another country and its citizens, all without seeing a shred of credible evidence in regards to the threat that they fear (ie. nukes). But I guess when you can just read about it on Huffpo or the Washington Post while drinking your morning coffee, it's much easier to stomach.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Sure, but you are making a lot of assumptions. My issue is with posters blindly stating "Israel attacks Iranian military structures = OMG WW3 NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE 2012".

As I said before, there are many ways to fight a war without nukes. 60 years of history would show this, despite one side always being labeled as "crazy"

I'm not actually making any assumptions at all, I'm simply stating that an attack on Iran creates the potential for a nuclear response. Neither you or I have any idea as to the ability to actually deliver that result, but the potential is there. The whole premise of a unilateral act simply adds credence to the position that it would be unwise, if it was a warranted act it wouldn't need to be taken unilaterally.

[mikey_the_redneck]

It's not a question of "will" Israel attack Iran, ...it's a question of "when" they attack Iran.

Of course America will go along with it, even if they have to put up some token media resistance to make people think they're reluctant.

The war has already started. You have sanctions and embargoes being imposed on Iran. You have the U.S./Israeli intellegence apparatus bombing missile sites, assassinating Iranian scientists, aiding terror groups inside Iran (MEK, Jundullah), and manipulating their currency/banking system.

War with Iran is inevitable because it is one of the prime targets in the Project for a New American Century, penned by the AIPAC/neocons that run the Pentagon since even before Bush Jr. (Think Perle, Wolfowitz, Cheney)

This war is not about Irans nuclear weapons, ...just like it wasn't about Iraq's WMD's. That is the glamorous cover story. This is about the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, all the big energy/resource deals between Iran, China, and Russia (that are taking business away from all the Western oil giants) This is about limiting/undermining China's geo-political influence in the region.

Nuclear weapons are only a means to enforce/maintain sovereignty, not for offense. Only Uncle Sam has used a nuke for offense.They are a great deterrent.

I don't think the "crazy" Iranian leadership are going to risk total destruction of their country in the form of a nuclear counter-attack just to "get" Israel. I feel if the M.E. wants to head in any meaningful direction, Israel should give up their nukes first, in exchange for Hamas/Hezbollah ceasefire and peace negotiations.

It's also about the petro-dollar.
Ahmadinejad, ....like Hussein and Gaddafi before him, have been negotiating with Russia/China to trade oil with their own national currencies, or a basket of currencies, NOT the American dollar. This would have a devastating effect on the U.S. economy. They need oil supplying nations to buy dollars to trade oil.

I have to hand it to Iran, ...they have been holding back despite being attacked covertly. This kind of dispels the popular notion that Iranian leaders are irrational crazies with a hair trigger.

What I see unfolding will be a Pearl Harbor(provocation) or Gulf of Tonkin(false flag) incident to kick this thing off, that is if they can't convince the world of Irans supposed nuclear weapons threat.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

It is very possible that Iran is trying to goad Israel to strike first in order to galvanize support in the region against Israel. It's been a common tactic used by many of the tyrants in the region in order to distract their own people from their oppressive regimes.

I think it will be the opposite.

Israel has already "fired the first shot" so to speak, what with the assassinations and other covert attacks.

They are trying to goad Iran into an overt counter-attack, ...that the western media will use to gain public support for a U.S./Israeli strike.

If Iran does not bite on the provocations ...I wouldn't be surprised to see a sudden "torpedo attack" on a U.S. ship in the region, even if they have to fabricate something (Gulf of Tonkin)

They are really breathing down Irans neck. It will be interesting to see what happens. Lets hope the next great war doesn't break out.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I don't think the "crazy" Iranian leadership are going to risk total destruction of their country in the form of a nuclear counter-attack just to "get" Israel. I feel if the M.E. wants to head in any meaningful direction, Israel should give up their nukes first, in exchange for Hamas/Hezbollah ceasefire and peace negotiations.

This is one of the most insane things I've ever read. Unless you think that Iran is going to come right out and publicly admit that they not only fund international terrorism, but actively control it as well. And your asking Israel to disarm first as a show of what? Good faith, what the frack have those groups and the rest of the Middle East done to earn that kind of trust. For Hammas and Hezbollah the term ceasefire is a alternative term to re-arm.


And that's hardly a unilateral trade off for Israel.

Hammas and Hezbollah are both hatred based groups that state that their established goal is the destruction of Israel oh and death to all Jews, do you think that they're going to give that up just because Iran says please.

And in the Tinkers box, lets just say that the ME states that are funding these death cults stop funding and arming them do you think they're going to slink away, or are they

1) Go out in an all out orgy of death against Israeli citizens
2) Lash out against their former financer's and weapons suppliers.

It will be both.

Beyond that, you over simplify things, oh Israel should give up their nuclear weapons in exchange for a promise by these groups to be nice.

Beyond your babbling about evil international cabals, subplots and plans by evil Jack booted American's to destroy poor innocent Iran, you fail to understand the strategic implications.

First, grab a map. Israel is a small country with absolutely no retreat routes, they are surrounded in a pincher by Arab states that have made war on them in the past on multiple occassions. They are backed onto the Ocean

1 of those countries Egypt is shifting towards control by the Muslim Brotherhood who do not recognize Israel and its right to exist.

While Israel's military and airforce are strong, they are vastly outnumbered by their neighbors.

They have Iran who are incredibly hostile, and seem to be developing nukes, on top of that they have constantly supported and funded and armed radical groups that have openly and eagerly attacked Israel's civilians, so don't say that Iran is some harmless benevolent innocence in this whole thing. Iran has been fighting a proxy war with Israel since Insano Khomeni took power.

You also have a country populated by a people who have been attacked and threatened with extermination by multiple countries over their entire existence so their ability to defend themselves goes far beyond merely sitting in a sh$tty defensive position waiting for a massed attack, they've adopted a very aggressive defense policy because its the only way that they can ensure their own survival.

I'll believe that the Middle East is serious about peace with Israel when Iran openly denounces Hezbollah and the Palestines throw Hammas out of government and the governments of Syria and Lebanon actively hunt down and destroy Hezbollah within their own borders.

But asking Israel to give up their nuclear arsenal without serious guarantee to its existence and recognition of their security and right to exist by the entire middle east isn't going to happen, and as much as some of you b1tch about Israel's activities in the Middle East, its not like the Middle Eastern Nations and the Palestinian groups have been exactly been honest in their dealings with Israel.

You will never have peace in the Middle East because neither side has any reason whatsoever to build a basis of peace because there is actually no basis for trust.

Personally, I think that the UN should build a demilitarized zone around the borders of Israel and stock it with heavy armor, air, artillary and infantry groups with the mandate to destroy the next nation that fires a shot over the border. But that would probably drive you crazy Mikey because the UN is plotting to take over the world through the use of slave armies created through the use of mind control with the funding assistance of the top 5 richest men in the world.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

All the world watched idly while Israel ruthlessly and inhumanely bombed the crap out of Lebanon.

How long have you waited for a thread to bash Israel? Do you mean Israel bombing Lebanon after thousands of rockets were fired from the border?

If Lebanon had not allowed Hezbollah to freely arm in it's southern border, there would be no violence. Yet you still blame Israel? How long should a nation allow rocket attacks?

Let's remind people, this was not Israel attacking Lebanon or it's people, this was Israel responding to THOUSANDS of rocket's launched by Hezbollah soldiers who are basically Iranian militias.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

How long have you waited for a thread to bash Israel? Do you mean Israel bombing Lebanon after thousands of rockets were fired from the border?

If Lebanon had not allowed Hezbollah to freely arm in it's southern border, there would be no violence. Yet you still blame Israel? How long should a nation allow rocket attacks?

Let's remind people, this was not Israel attacking Lebanon or it's people, this was Israel responding to THOUSANDS of rocket's launched by Hezbollah soldiers who are basically Iranian militias.

Maybe you'd like to have a seat with my mom, dad, Grandma, and countless other Lebanese immigrants and they can tell you all about their torture stories at the hands of Israel.

This didn't just start a decade ago, but before Hezballah was even created.