Calgary woman brutally assaulted in Mexican resort

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Exactly.

Look, I'm not someone with their head in the sand saying that this doesn't happen everywhere. And I'm not afraid to go to countries because there is the chance it might happen to me. I've traveled to many different countries in North America, Europe, Asia and South America, so lay off on the over the top posts.

The point I am trying to make is that if I have a choice of where to spend my tourism dollars in North America it won't be in Mexico because I disagree with how they have handled this whole situation. That is my right as a consumer.

How you can sit there and blast me for calling out the handling of this situation by Mexican authorities is actually quite stunning.

Why people get so aggressive in their posts regarding this I don't understand.

All I've said since the beginning is my personal opinion. Feel free to disagree with it, but lets keep it on topic. Mexico tourism industry, and more importantly a Calgarian woman who's life was completely changed by a brutal attack at a 5 start resort. (and the subsequent scapegoating of a Mexican national).

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Look, I'm not someone with their head in the sand saying that this doesn't happen everywhere. And I'm not afraid to go to countries because there is the chance it might happen to me. I've traveled to many different countries in North America, Europe, Asia and South America, so lay off on the over the top posts.

The point I am trying to make is that if I have a choice of where to spend my tourism dollars in North America it won't be in Mexico because I disagree with how they have handled this whole situation. That is my right as a consumer.

How you can sit there and blast me for calling out the handling of this situation by Mexican authorities is actually quite stunning.

Why people get so aggressive in their posts regarding this I don't understand.

All I've said since the beginning is my personal opinion. Feel free to disagree with it, but lets keep it on topic. Mexico tourism industry, and more importantly a Calgarian woman who's life was completely changed by a brutal attack at a 5 start resort. (and the subsequent scapegoating of a Mexican national).

Exactly.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

If you go to Australia are you endorsing the treatment of Aboriginals?
If you go to Britain are you endorsing the invasion of Iraq?
If you go to Greece are you endorsing fiscal irresponsibility?
If you go to Arkansas are you endorsing incest?
Are tourists to Canada endorsing seal clubbing?

Those are really poor analogies.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Slava

Can I just ask a dumb question here? I'm not picking on you, because I know that "every bone" comment has been made everywhere....but how many bones are we talking about here? Like the orbital bone and the jaw bone? I'm not trying to be facetious, but seriously what constitutes "every bone"? Could that be done with a couple of punches?

none taken.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...k.html?cmp=rss

I do not have experience punching women in the face but I can only guess it would take multiple strikes. My mom however was a nurse at the General and Lougheed for 37yrs and the last 12 were in the face and hand clinic which is the cosmetic surgery ward.
Keep in mind she was not a doctor, but i trust her medical opinion.

Of course this crime has been talked about quite a bit everywhere in Calgary so our family is no different.
She has said it would take "multiple blows" to do that much damage by a fist. The knuckles or metacarpal-phalangeal joint would be very badly bruised at minimum but most likely fractured expecially the index finger.

[Burninator]

Why have you ruled out kicking or an object?

[red sky]

Interesting discussion here but one argument that has not been discussed relates to the majority of Mexican's who need the tourism industry in order to survive. Last I checked, tourism is one of the most important industries for Mexico and their people. These are decent people. Not killers, drug lords, nor woman-face-smasher-iners. They have families just like you and I, and in order to provide, they require us to visit their country. These people don't have a choice. They have to work in the country that they were born in as they most likely cannot afford to emigrate elsewhere.

By “boycotting” their country, much like IliketoPuck has, you are effectively protective your life at the expense of those kind hearted and hard working citizens that make up most of Mexico. I know one thing for sure, I will continue to safely travel to Mexico and other “unsafe” nations as they, as a country, need our support.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Look, I'm not someone with their head in the sand saying that this doesn't happen everywhere. And I'm not afraid to go to countries because there is the chance it might happen to me. I've traveled to many different countries in North America, Europe, Asia and South America, so lay off on the over the top posts.

How? I'm not being over the top or argumentative as you are representing it.

What you are being though is hypocritical. You say don't go to Mexico because they have a corrupt government, judicial system and police.

I'm saying that you never would have gone to Asia or SA if you actually believed that.

This leads me to believe that there must be some other, perhaps irrational, reason that you hate Mexico. Because justice and morality of their government certainly isn't it based on the places you said you travel.

The point I am trying to make is that if I have a choice of where to spend my tourism dollars in North America it won't be in Mexico because I disagree with how they have handled this whole situation. That is my right as a consumer.

Ok that's all fine. No one said otherwise. In fact I've been vocal of people who are preaching about where OTHER people should go, which I believe you did when you stated that anyone who goes to mexico is encouraging this behavior by their police and government.

How you can sit there and blast me for calling out the handling of this situation by Mexican authorities is actually quite stunning.

I did no such thing. I'm saying that unless you don't travel at all or only go to a select few places, that you're being a hypocrite. I'm not defending the mexican police. I'm defending the people that YOU criticized by saying that anyone who continues to travel there is part of the problem.

I think that you most likely travelled to a place in Asia or SA very similar to Mexico in terms of their corruption etc. To lay blame on others while ignoring your own advice is hypocritical. By association you support child prostitution in Thailand, religious intolerence and police brutality in Indonesia and Malaysia, torture in China etc. This is all according to YOU.

Why people get so aggressive in their posts regarding this I don't understand.

Who's aggressive?

All I've said since the beginning is my personal opinion. Feel free to disagree with it, but lets keep it on topic. Mexico tourism industry, and more importantly a Calgarian woman who's life was completely changed by a brutal attack at a 5 start resort. (and the subsequent scapegoating of a Mexican national).

I think debating Mexico as a tourist destination vs other places is entirely relevant to the thread.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by red sky

Interesting discussion here but one argument that has not been discussed relates to the majority of Mexican's who need the tourism industry in order to survive. Last I checked, tourism is one of the most important industries for Mexico and their people. These are decent people. Not killers, drug lords, nor woman-face-smasher-iners. They have families just like you and I, and in order to provide, they require us to visit their country. These people don't have a choice. They have to work in the country that they were born as they most likely cannot afford to emigrate elsewhere.

By “boycotting” their country, much like IliketoPuck has, you are effectively protective your life at the expense of those kind hearted and hard working citizens that make up most of Mexico. I know one thing for sure, I will continue to safely travel to Mexico and other “unsafe” nations as they, as a country, need our support.

And I don't disagree with your statement at all, it is a very good point you raise.

I just wonder what the effect would be if Mexico saw a tangible drop in their tourism industry, which would really affect the people you are talking about. Would the incentive then be there for the Mexican government to make a change? Totally hypothetical, but its a great point you raised.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

And I don't disagree with your statement at all, it is a very good point you raise.

I just wonder what the effect would be if Mexico saw a tangible drop in their tourism industry, which would really affect the people you are talking about. Would the incentive then be there for the Mexican government to make a change? Totally hypothetical, but its a great point you raised.

I imagine that many of these people would end up getting caught up in the Drug War out of necessity to provide for their family.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think that you most likely travelled to a place in Asia or SA very similar to Mexico in terms of their corruption etc. To lay blame on others while ignoring your own advice is hypocritical. By association you support child prostitution in Thailand, religious intolerence and police brutality in Indonesia and Malaysia, torture in China etc. This is all according to YOU.

For the sake of discussion I'll bite.

Looking at this statement, here is my take:

I am absolutely against all of the things you state above, no question.

But by extrapolating what I am saying about Mexico to include these countries is a bit much. According to me, as you say, by choosing as a consumer to boycott Mexico due to their handling of an issue relating to a citizen of my own city, I then must boycott all travel to every country in the world based on each countries human rights record.

That is one hell of a stretch.

What I am saying has to do specifically with how tourism related incidents are handled in Mexico, and my choice not to endorse the way it has been handled.

Not how domestic issues are handled all over the world.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Why have you ruled out kicking or an object?

I havn't this guys statement says he hit her 4 or 5 times in the face and did not kick her or hit her with anything.

JMO I don't think he did it. I think the Mexican police have perhaps taken a low level thief or drug addict that is easy to pin it on. Wrote the statement for him.
Why the naked in the elevator part of the story, perhaps to make some crap up to make it look like she was partying, out of control or sleep walking naked so it makes it look like the Resort could not have prevented a naked women from being attacked? To shift blame somewhat on the tourist ?

Personally I think whoever really did do this crime used a blunt object to hit her with or kicked her several times.

Every report says there was no trauma to the head only the face and jaw.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by red sky

By “boycotting” their country, much like IliketoPuck has, you are effectively protective your life at the expense of those kind hearted and hard working citizens that make up most of Mexico. I know one thing for sure, I will continue to safely travel to Mexico and other “unsafe” nations as they, as a country, need our support.

Have you ever been robbed, pickpocketed, assaulted or harassed?

Guaranteed these things happen for one of two reasons abroad - either you're asking for it, or you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And most people probably wouldn't want to go back to that country (at least for a long time) if it happened to them. You're definitely brave to go to a country because they "need our support."

[valo403]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

For the sake of discussion I'll bite.

Looking at this statement, here is my take:

I am absolutely against all of the things you state above, no question.

But by extrapolating what I am saying about Mexico to include these countries is a bit much. According to me, as you say, by choosing as a consumer to boycott Mexico due to their handling of an issue relating to a citizen of my own city, I then must boycott all travel to every country in the world based on each countries human rights record.

That is one hell of a stretch.

What I am saying has to do specifically with how tourism related incidents are handled in Mexico, and my choice not to endorse the way it has been handled.

Not how domestic issues are handled all over the world.

I can think of a number of countries in Asia, ones you likely traveled to, that have a similar record when it comes to handling tourists and tourism related issues. The frequency of the impact on Canadians is obviously decreased as those countries simply see fewer Canadian visitors, but it doesn't change the fact that it happens. Ask an Australian if they've ever heard stories out of Indonesia or Thailand about corruption involving tourists.

I think that's the point, you're going overboard by saying that people who travel to Mexico are endorsing this behavior when that same brush could paint your travels.

[IliketoPuck]

Fair point, and being older now than when I traveled, I would absolutely consider things like that when making future travel plans.

I guess the thing that gets me is how close to home this story is. Also the volume of tourism from Canada to Mexico is much higher than to Asia or Europe, so the incentive for Mexican authorities to make progress on this case is much higher due to the bad publicity.

How do you get businesses and industries to listen to you? With your $$.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Look, I'm not someone with their head in the sand saying that this doesn't happen everywhere. And I'm not afraid to go to countries because there is the chance it might happen to me. I've traveled to many different countries in North America, Europe, Asia and South America, so lay off on the over the top posts.

The point I am trying to make is that if I have a choice of where to spend my tourism dollars in North America it won't be in Mexico because I disagree with how they have handled this whole situation. That is my right as a consumer.

How you can sit there and blast me for calling out the handling of this situation by Mexican authorities is actually quite stunning.

Why people get so aggressive in their posts regarding this I don't understand.

All I've said since the beginning is my personal opinion. Feel free to disagree with it, but lets keep it on topic. Mexico tourism industry, and more importantly a Calgarian woman who's life was completely changed by a brutal attack at a 5 start resort. (and the subsequent scapegoating of a Mexican national).

That is your right, and it is a valid reason on which to base your choice when weighing up your options.

And by continuing to support the Mexican tourism industry, you essentially condone the actions of the Mexican government, police and judicial system.

The above statement however, is ridiculous.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Those are really poor analogies.

How so?

They may be tongue in cheek, but how do they differ from someone choosing to go on holiday to Mexico, being accused of condoning policing there?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Those are really poor analogies.

I agree. No one in their right mind is against seal clubbing, tourist or not.

[Hockeyguy15]

So the guy says he was drunk and high...Now he is saying he did it but he wasn't trying to kill her.

Why should we A) Believe him when he says she was naked, maybe she was just wearing a bikini or something and he was so wasted he thought she was naked, and B) That he didn't kick her, or hit her with an object or ram her face into the elevator wall? The guy was high and wasted, not the best combo for remembering details.

Look, I am all for the conspiracy theory angle but what does the Mexican government have to gain by pinning this on a Mexican citizen who snuck onto the grounds? If anything that is the last thing they wanted, it would have been better for them if it was some idiot tourist from the resort. Having it being a Mexican citizen is bad for the tourism business, not good...And if you are trying to cover up the crime you pick something that will make you look better, not worse.

As far as I am concerned I think it is very plausible this guy did it. He admits beating her up, but says he didn't try to kill her, if anything I can see the police making him sign the confession saying he tried to kill her because they want to seem hard on criminals (when we all know it isn't true anyway). This dummy is the only person saying she was naked, nothing in the papers or the cops about her being naked...He was drunk and stoned and probably has a blurry vision of how the night went.

[IliketoPuck]

What is your take on him signing the confession without being able to read it?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So the guy says he was drunk and high...Now he is saying he did it but he wasn't trying to kill her.

Why should we A) Believe him when he says she was naked, maybe she was just wearing a bikini or something and he was so wasted he thought she was naked, .

The Mexican authorities also said that she was naked.