The Bizarre Case Of The Kingston Honour Killing

[Rathji]

I think he was actually saying that the cultural interpretation of Sharia law might have influenced how the family thought, but it was never brought up at trial, so was not relevant in their sentencing.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

They were granted landed immigrant status in 2007. They're not Canadian citizens.

Yes, likely not. You need to stay for 2 years to apply for citizenship so it'll be sometime 2009 that they could apply for the first time. Likely by June 30, 2009, they won't have received their citizenship yet. If that's the case, as convicted felons, they can't apply for citizenship anymore.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Yes, likely not. You need to stay for 2 years to apply for citizenship so it'll be sometime 2009 that they could apply for the first time. Likely by June 30, 2009, they won't have received their citizenship yet. If that's the case, as convicted felons, they can't apply for citizenship anymore.

So in that case, you let them serve the 25 years, grant them parole and toss them on a plane out of the country at the end so they don't siphon off of the pension system when they are released.

Its not like they'll have anything waiting for them when they get out.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its not like they'll have anything waiting for them when they get out.

They will still have most of their money left as we will be feeding and clothing them for the next 25 years.

The father will be about 84 if he lives that long but with his money he could easily go back to Afghanistan and marry a 16 year old. Same with the son who wouldn't be 50 after 25 years. But four lives are forever lost.

[CaptainCrunch]

I hope the old ####### lives for 24 years and 11 months and keels over dead just before he gets paroled.

Prison is tougher on woman, she's probably going to end up eating a lot of seafood while she's in prison.

And the son has them soft girly hands, he's gonna be sooo popular at the Prison formal.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I think he was actually saying that the cultural interpretation of Sharia law might have influenced how the family thought, but it was never brought up at trial, so was not relevant in their sentencing.

It wasn't an "historic verdict" as the Calgary SUN and other headlines are shouting.

It was a pretty straight forward pre-meditated murder and trial with a fairly obvious outcome.

Symbolically, however, the culture surrounding "honour killing" was definitely on trial. There are cultures in the world that aren't worth preserving and deserve to die a natural death. This is one of them.

I'm not sure how much "honour" the father can claim when he consistently denied the actions of killing his daughters. There's something wrong with his manhood - and culture - somewhere.

A good essay on this outcome . . . .

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...ing-point-for/

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

It wasn't an "historic verdict" as the Calgary SUN and other headlines are shouting.

It was a pretty straight forward pre-meditated murder and trial with a fairly obvious outcome.

Symbolically, however, the culture surrounding "honour killing" was definitely on trial. There are cultures in the world that aren't worth preserving and deserve to die a natural death. This is one of them.

I'm not sure how much "honour" the father can claim when he consistently denied the actions of killing his daughters. There's something wrong with his manhood - and culture - somewhere.

A good essay on this outcome . . . .

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...ing-point-for/

Cowperson

Honor is a word that's been completely twisted over time until it becomes a convienient buzz word.

The Japanese had a strict honor system (Bushido) where one of the key tenants was based around compassion to the lower station and conduct your self with Justice, fairness and justice.

But the Samuri and later the Imperial Military who lived by the code of Bushido were the most merciless civilian raping and slaughtering machines every created.

With the family honor killings, your right Cow, you would think this guy would have stood up and not denied that he restored his families honor. But for the most part, the people that hide behind the whole honor code thing are usually lying scumbags and cowards who aren't willing to pay a price to gain that honor.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Aren't you kind of saying one thing and doing another? Basically inferring that these beliefs are probably part of the Pashtun culture, but then saying that the culture shouldn't be held on trial?

Isn't that kind of dancing around the issue?

I don't really have anything invested in this thread, just found your deduction kind of curious.

I'm not saying that the culture shouldn't be held on trial (although there are no doubt good reasons not to debate the merits of a particular culture in the context of one particular incident.) I'm saying that, even if one were to accept that Pashtun culture is inconsistent with Canadian culture in some ways, this trial is evidence that Pashtun culture (and especially the "sharia law" boogeyman) is not a threat to the Canadian justice system (as some comments seemed to suggest by complaining of "sharia law" in Canada.) It was not even suggested by defence counsel that the killings were somehow justified by sharia law. Had such arguments been made, they would have been no doubt totally rejected. Motive is irrelevant in Canadian criminal law.

Let's imagine that some minority of french people, inspired by Les Miserables, believe that a person is justified in stealing loaves of bread whenever they like. One day a french immigrant in Calgary steals a loaf of bread. At trial, the french immigrant repeatedly claims that he did not steal said loaf of bread. The french immigrant is convicted and sentenced according to Canadian criminal law. Would it not be silly for people, in these circumstances, to be bemoaning the infliltration of "french law" into Canada?

This trial was about three people who committed murder according to Canadian law. They were convicted and punished according to Canadian law. Therefore, using this trial as a reason to complain about sharia law in Canada is irrational.

There is zero risk of people stealing bread and murdering daughters with impunity in Canada. There is no need to fear "french law" or "sharia law" in Canada. We only have one type of law in Canada: Canadian law (this is a bit of a simplification, but is good enough in the context of this discussion I think.)

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

On the heels of this verdict, a story came out of Afghanistan:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Afgh...976/story.html

Another horrific case of violence against women in Afghanistan came to light Monday when authorities reported that a husband in a northern province, angry that his wife had not yet borne him a son, strangled her soon after she gave birth to their third child.

A moot point is that it's the father that determines the gender of a child.

[Thrillingbroom]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

On the heels of this verdict, a story came out of Afghanistan:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Afgh...976/story.html



A moot point is that it's the father that determines the gender of a child.

The nature of secretions from a mother's uterus can also affect the gender of a child, a more acidic environment will favour the growth of sperm carrying girls and an alkaline environment will favour growth of sperm carrying boys.

I have no clue why I know this...

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

a story came out of Afghanistan

Speaking of stories coming out of Afghanistan and women and sharia law. I just felt the need to mention that A Thousand Splendid Suns (Khaled Hosseini - The Kite Runner) is a great read.

Told through the eyes of women.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Speaking of stories coming out of Afghanistan and women and sharia law. I just felt the need to mention that A Thousand Splendid Suns (Khaled Hosseini - The Kite Runner) is a great read.

Love The Kite Runner, I saw the movie and read the book. Thanks for the recommendation.

[Makarov]

Incidentally, I visited Afghanistan for about a month in 2007, and it is home to the most beautiful landscapes I've ever seen. Also, for anyone interested in history (or humanity really), it is like a trip 1000 years back in time. Really fascinating place. I highly recommend it as a travel destination (well, once things stabilize a little more I suppose.)

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Incidentally, I visited Afghanistan for about a month in 2007, and it is home to the most beautiful landscapes I've ever seen. Also, for anyone interested in history (or humanity really), it is like a trip 1000 years back in time. Really fascinating place. I highly recommend it as a travel destination (well, once things stabilize a little more I suppose.)

I suspect few outsiders will ever venture on Afghan soil again. Really, why would you regardless of the inherent beauty. I am sure there are parts of Sudan and Somalia that are redeeming as well. Afghanistan + Stability = Oxymoron

[Jets4Life]

....

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Incidentally, I visited Afghanistan for about a month in 2007, and it is home to the most beautiful landscapes I've ever seen. Also, for anyone interested in history (or humanity really), it is like a trip 1000 years back in time. Really fascinating place. I highly recommend it as a travel destination (well, once things stabilize a little more I suppose.)

And yet it was very modern in the 60's/70's..(pre-religious ###### times)