The Bizarre Case Of The Kingston Honour Killing

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Makarov

What are you talking about?

The Ontario NDP floated the idea back in 2004. To be fair, Christian and Jewish arbitrations had been allowed in family law cases up until that time. Thankfully, disallowing Sharia courts also put the kibosh on the Christian and Jewish arbitrations as well. I shudder to think what would have happened in the Shafia case if this crap had gone through.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...hariah_050911/

As per the previous post, this case has nothing to do with family law, but allowing Sharia would have kept these girls under their father's boot even more. Ironically, the murders may have never happened as a result.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

The Ontario NDP floated the idea back in 2004. To be fair, Christian and Jewish arbitrations had been allowed in family law cases up until that time. Thankfully, disallowing Sharia courts also put the kibosh on the Christian and Jewish arbitrations as well. I shudder to think what would have happened in the Shafia case if this crap had gone through.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...hariah_050911/

Why? Family law doesn't cover murder. When two Christians killed each other pre-2005, do you think they went to a Christian faith-based tribunal to have it dealt with?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

The Ontario NDP floated the idea back in 2004. To be fair, Christian and Jewish arbitrations had been allowed in family law cases up until that time. Thankfully, disallowing Sharia courts also put the kibosh on the Christian and Jewish arbitrations as well. I shudder to think what would have happened in the Shafia case if this crap had gone through.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...hariah_050911/

As per the previous post, this case has nothing to do with family law, but allowing Sharia would have kept these girls under their father's boot even more. Ironically, the murders may have never happened as a result.

Yes, I'm familiar with all of this. I meant for my incredulous post to point out the absurdity of suggesting that (a) a criminal offence could ever be tried in a completely voluntary shariah adjudicatory tribunal; and (b) that Ontario could somehow change the criminal law (over which the federal Crown has exclusive jurisdiction) even if the scary muslims "took over" Ontario.

Incidentally, the family lived in Quebec, so Ontario's use of Sharia adjudicatory tribunals is irrelevant. Even if the family did live in Ontario, and even if Ontario had offered voluntary religious adjudication tribunals to families who wanted their help in settling family disputes, if there were child protection concerns, such child protection concerns would have been dealt with according to law in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, as always.

The moral of this post: "sharia law" is absolutely irrelevant to the tragic story of the Shafias.

[Red Ice Player]

Forgot you were a member of the bar....duh.

[darklord700]

25 year in the Club Med Canadian prison is not bad. The mother will only be 67 when she gets out and the son will only be about 48. Since the family has money, the government should sue them to recover the costs of the investigation, trial and imprisonment.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by darklord700

25 year in the Club Med Canadian prison is not bad. The mother will only be 67 when she gets out and the son will only be about 48. Since the family has money, the government suit them to recover the costs of the investigation, trial and imprisonment.

Don't know about that. They're only eligible for parole after 25 years depending on the parole board. Even paroled, they're are still special conditions.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Forgot you were a member of the bar....duh.

Oh, I wasn't insulted or offended. Frankly, the fewer people that know you're a lawyer, the less scorn is heaped on you!

I'm just a little sensitive about the whole Glenn Beck-inspired "the scary muslims are imposing sharia law on all of us" myth which raises its ugly head from time to time.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by darklord700

25 year in the Club Med Canadian prison is not bad. The mother will only be 67 when she gets out and the son will only be about 48.

Have you ever been to a federal penitentiary in Canada?

Originally Posted by darklord700

Since the family has money, the government should sue them to recover the costs of the investigation, trial and imprisonment.

This is not possible.

[Stranger]

I never meant my original question to be anti muslim. I just knew Sharia law was looked at in Ontario and wondered if it would have pertained to this case. I didn't realize it only covered family disputes. Thanks for answering my question.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Oh, I wasn't insulted or offended. Frankly, the fewer people that know you're a lawyer, the less scorn is heaped on you!

I'm just a little sensitive about the whole Glenn Beck-inspired "the scary muslims are imposing sharia law on all of us" myth which raises its ugly head from time to time.

Glenn Beck and his fans (paging Tim Thomas..) are invariably idiots. However, I see evidence of Fundamentalist subjugation (the burka and niqab) in Canada iwith my own eyes. I personally equate it to slavery. It is not an educated choice. To my knowledge, the Shafias didn't make their kids wear that type of gear, but they were conservative enough to murder their female children based upon a barbaric honour code. They are obviously an extreme example, but definitely not unique within their culture.

[CaptainCrunch]

There's not much that I can say, I was concerned that they were going to either get away with it or be convicted of second degree murder, because of the lack of evidence about how the actual killings took place.

There's no question that religious or not, the father was a monster, the mother was a monster and the son was a dupe and a idiot.

I have no doubt that this will be appealed out the waazoo, but lets hope that their first night in prison is a miserable soul crushing experience.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There's not much that I can say, I was concerned that they were going to either get away with it or be convicted of second degree murder, because of the lack of evidence about how the actual killings took place.

There's no question that religious or not, the father was a monster, the mother was a monster and the son was a dupe and a idiot.

I have no doubt that this will be appealed out the waazoo, but lets hope that their first night in prison is a miserable soul crushing experience.

Not that it really matters, but the Shafias have been in remand for over two years now. They are well-acquainted with life in custody (which likely makes the prospect of a further 23 years in prison that much more soul-crushing for them.)

[Jets4Life]

Thank God the parents and brother of the victims were found guilty. Sharia Law has no place in Canadian society. If the parents can't respect our Canadian laws, they should be deported back to Afghanistan. I can't even imagine what those poor daughters had to endure in the last hour of their life.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Thank God the parents and brother of the victims were found guilty. Sharia Law has no place in Canadian society. If the parents can't respect our Canadian laws, they should be deported back to Afghanistan. I can't even imagine what those poor daughters had to endure in the last hour of their life.

Perhaps you can explain what this tragedy has to do with "Sharia Law"?

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Perhaps you can explain what this tragedy has to do with "Sharia Law"?

The parents killed their daughters in some warped interpretation of Sharia Law. regardless of what one may think of Sharia Law, it has no place in Canadian society. If someone comes to Canada, they should respect CANADIAN Law. My Irish ancestors respected the law 150 years ago. Why should things be different now?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The parents killed their daughters in some warped interpretation of Sharia Law. regardless of what one may think of Sharia Law, it has no place in Canadian society. If someone comes to Canada, they should respect CANADIAN Law. My Irish ancestors respected the law 150 years ago. Why should things be different now?

What are you arguing? Do you think there are people here defending what they did based upon the fact that they're immigrants, or are you just ranting against foreigners in general?

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

What are you arguing? Do you think there are people here defending what they did based upon the fact that they're immigrants, or are you just ranting against foreigners in general?

You are reading way too much into my statement. Do you dispute this was a so-called "honor killing?" I have nothing whatsoever against immigrants if they contribute positively to Canadian society. However, if they violate or have no respect for our laws, they should be deported.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The parents killed their daughters in some warped interpretation of Sharia Law. regardless of what one may think of Sharia Law, it has no place in Canadian society. If someone comes to Canada, they should respect CANADIAN Law. My Irish ancestors respected the law 150 years ago. Why should things be different now?

Please provide some shred of evidence for the bolded assertion.

Also, no one, not even defence counsel for the Shafias, has ever argued that this sort of heinous and appalling act would be condoned by "Sharia Law" or that, even if it was so condoned (and I'm not aware of any interpretation of "Sharia Law" that would condone it), that such should have any relevance in Canadian law whatsoever.

You're tilting at windmills entirely of your own xenophobic imagination.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Makarov

You're tilting at windmills of your entirely your own xenophobic imagination.

Interesting. I did not know that expecting people who immigrate from other countries to respect our Canadian Laws was considered "Xenophobia."

[afc wimbledon]

Any 2 parties in a civil case can agree to settle their case by the tenants of sharia law if they wish, the problem only comes in when the losing party decides it doesn't like sharia law after all (because they got screwed) and so wants to go to regular court.

Personally I think Canada should restrict immigration to the non profoudly religeous, whether they be muslim, morman Jewish or Sihk, they are all a pain in the arse that don't really fit in to our society that well.