Websites like Google and Wikipedia going black in protest of SOPA

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Rathji

They won't have the power to shut down the actual website, but they can block it by removing it from DNS and search engines. Essentially it will still exist, but a large portion of the population will have no way to get there.

It will certainly have an impact on Canadian internet because so much is tied together, but it won't be quite as bad here I would think.

Instead of going to google.com you would go to http://74.125.224.72

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I hope you are right, this is one of the rare cases where I have no read the actual text of the bill to form my own opinion.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261:

Section 103 d is the part people have issues with.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by kirant

This bill fails to work that way. It states that primarily distributors (sites which have the primary purpose of distributing illegally used wares) will be targetted. Torrent sites for example (and before it is asked, YouTube is not viewed or used as a primary distributor)

It basically reads that:
- The US Department of Justice, on recommendation from a company, may pursue charges against a foreign site for primary distribution. To do so, they must get a court order (which is pretty key. I think this part is skipped over by a lot of sources).
- If provided, the court has the power to ask that DNS service be denied (to be removed by Lamar Smith, the bill writer), freeze assets, remove them from search engines, and ask ad sites to have them stop appearing, based on what it thinks is required.
- This can be fought by appearing in the court and if the company is found to be attempting to abuse the law, they are liable for damages to the site holder.

Unintentional or minor distribution of links to illegal distributions sites (such as posting links on CP or Facebook) are not the scope of this law. Again, sites that distribute torrents, primarily distribute illegal data (such as a site that is primarily designed to host free movies via streaming), or sites with the primary purpose of finding these links (such as a search engine or database which takes a Google-esc approach to finding torrents or illegally streaming movies) are what is being looked at here.

...Also, I've never heard of a case yet of pursuing online photo piracy.

The issue is that the bill has the ability to leak into other areas, and as we've seen time and time again once a crack is created it will be utilized to go after unintended targets.

Basically I see it as an issue of a law that is overbroad and can easily be manipulated to target a vast array of activities at the whim of an entertainment company backed by a large legal department. They'll be able to make a case that will satisfy a judge, especially when they find a jurisdiction that favors their position, and the parties targeted will not be in a position to competently argue the claim. It's not the end of the world, but I think it's a bill that has the potential to become an issue down the road.

[VladtheImpaler]

Freedom blah, blah, blah, censorship, blah, blah, blah... let's cut to the nub of the matter... will this or will this not hamper my ability to download as much porn as I could want?

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Freedom blah, blah, blah, censorship, blah, blah, blah... let's cut to the nub of the matter... will this or will this not hamper my ability to download as much porn as could want?

It will be back to the Sears catalogue.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by valo403

The issue is that the bill has the ability to leak into other areas, and as we've seen time and time again once a crack is created it will be utilized to go after unintended targets.

Pfft...what are you talking about? The Patriot Act has never been abused or used in completely unecessary circumstances.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Freedom blah, blah, blah, censorship, blah, blah, blah... let's cut to the nub of the matter... will this or will this not hamper my ability to download as much porn as I could want?

Yes, because the porn industry will use this opportunity to block the sites you've been getting your porn for free.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by valo403

The issue is that the bill has the ability to leak into other areas, and as we've seen time and time again once a crack is created it will be utilized to go after unintended targets.

I'm certainly not disagreeing. Every law issued in will have unintended consequences. I'm just stating that the concept of the US government running down CP or other avatar usings sites because it has illegal avatars is not in scope (and, even in some of the extreme scenarios I can image, probably not in the same ballpark).

I think the bill will fall under the ineffective side of things. The unintended consequence will be a company and tax money based game of whack-a-mole in court against the internet.

Of course, I'm making the assumption courts are rational. And it's a hope.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Yes, it has the potential to affect the internet in Canada and elsewhere. The server itself will still be running somewhere in the world, but the US government can poison its DNS entry and force search engines to remove it from their results.

If you knew the IP address of the server you could still access it, but if you typed the URL into your browser or tried searching for it on Google (and those two methods are how 99.999999% of the world uses the web), you could not access the site.

[Edit]
Beaten by Rathji

This. It's the DNS changes that are really getting under people's skin and causing the panic. Basically when you buy a domain, say CalgaryPuck.com you need to tell the registrar where CalgaryPuck actually resides.

So anyone can type in CalgaryPuck.com and get their beloved Flames Forum. However DNS is easily manipulated, heck you can go into your router and make it so CalgaryPuck.com resolves to Oilers.NHL.com.

If ISP's were required to do DNS changes by law then "hey, troutman's avatar is a copyrighted photo, take it down" suddenly users in the US are unable to access CalgaryPuck.com as a result. Sure the admins could go purchase FlamesPuck.com and start the cat and mouse game again, but why should they? They arean't running a pirating site, and they certainly weren't profiting off a photo of johnny cash, but SOPA doesn't care.

Although this cat/mouse game of altered domain names sure explains why GoDaddy would support SOPA.

At it's core it's the same problem that DRM has caused, punishing the paying/honest users for the actions of criminals.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Yes, it has the potential to affect the internet in Canada and elsewhere. The server itself will still be running somewhere in the world, but the US government can poison its DNS entry and force search engines to remove it from their results.

If you knew the IP address of the server you could still access it, but if you typed the URL into your browser or tried searching for it on Google (and those two methods are how 99.999999% of the world uses the web), you could not access the site.

[Edit]
Beaten by Rathji

and this will do absolutely nothing to diminish piracy. so thepiratebay url no longer works, big deal, just type in the IP address and continue your pirating ways. the average computer user will be confused for a bit, but eventually word will spread and everyone will know how to get around this latest tactic just like with every other attempt at curbing piracy

[kirant]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

This. It's the DNS changes that are really getting under people's skin and causing the panic.

How is it to be treated once word has been given to strike out the DNS though? Lamar Smith did state he'll remove it. If DNS was the major issue for most people, I'd expect word of it would have spread real fast.

[Hack&Lube]

IIRC, the DNS stipulations have been officially dropped from the agenda by the SOPAists

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think you're well aware that this issue is far more complicated than you're attempting to paint it, and that SOPA goes far beyond targeting 'theft' of copyright material.

This thread has been educational for me - I was not aware how far reaching this was.

I do have relatives in the movie industry, and I know how big a concern piracy is to them. We all know people who have hundreds (if not thousands) of movies and cds that they have not paid for.

What would be appropriate protection for copyright holders? Right now it seems to be a free-for-all.

[sa226]

Can you Imagine if Facebook did this as an awareness thing?

It would be apocalyptic.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

IIRC, the DNS stipulations have been officially dropped from the agenda by the SOPAists

Yes it was. As I was going at before, it seems to have been lost in all the chaos the Internet created over the bill:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/13/27...g-removed-SOPA

Originally Posted by sa226

Can you Imagine if Facebook did this as an awareness thing?

It would be apocalyptic.

It would be heaven for companies...imagine how much work would get done...you know, after the withdrawl symptoms went away.

[rubecube]

I think the biggest flaw in all of this is the assertion that piracy is the biggest cause of lost profits in any of these industries (i.e. porn, film, music). Each of them can actually point to completely legitimate ways of accessing content as the real reasons behind the loss of profits.

Music-

- Profits were artificially inflated in the 90s due to people replacing their cassette collections with CDs
- iPods and iTunes made it easier and more efficient to purchase individual songs rather than entire albums, making the concepts of the single and the album semi-obsolete. Also, no longer needed compilations
- Top 40 content simply not good enough to justify buying entire CDs. Not mention that top 40 radio recycles the same songs often enough to justify not buying CDS

Film-

- Again, DVD sales artificially inflated due to many people replacing VHS collections
- Hilariously, this didn't work with people when Blu-Ray came out. In some cases, pissed people off (see: Lord of the Rings)
- Theatre attendance had already started to decline due to high prices and introduction of HDTV
- Netflix, OnDemand PPV made it more convenient and cheaper to stay home and not rent/purchase movies

Porn-

- I've never actually purchased porn and don't know why anyone would
- From what I've read, the collapse of the porn industry can be attributed to the digital distribution of amateur pornography


To be fair, the film and music industries would've been less likely to provide premimum content to iTunes and Netflix if piracy didn't exist, but I think that just proves why piracy is necessary. It's a check against pure greed. I can almost guarantee that if they were ever able to completely legislate and eradicate digital piracy (which is pretty unlikely), we would see either a complete reduction of digital content or an increased cost associated with it.

[rubecube]

I also find a bit of irony in all of this. The U.S. is supposed to be the biggest proponent of capitalism and the free-market, which in theory is supposed to be a meritocracy. However, it seems like whenever one of the big industries can no longer survive on merit they go crying to the government to prop them up or legislate their competitors out of the game.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

Instead of going to google.com you would go to http://74.125.224.72

I understand that, but the vast majority of people do not. Even if they did, they would have to have that IP address, which you wouldn't readily have if DNS entries were removed or poisoned.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I also find a bit of irony in all of this. The U.S. is supposed to be the biggest proponent of capitalism and the free-market, which in theory is supposed to be a meritocracy. However, it seems like whenever one of the big industries can no longer survive on merit they go crying to the government to prop them up or legislate their competitors out of the game.

It's unfortunate that the US is all about lobby groups these days. I think internet giants like facebook and google have learned their lesson in assembling lobbyist. The music and movie industry have decades of experienced lobby groups crying to the governement. It's time the internet giants fight fire with fire.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by kirant

Yes it was. As I was going at before, it seems to have been lost in all the chaos the Internet created over the bill:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/13/27...g-removed-SOPA


It would be heaven for companies...imagine how much work would get done...you know, after the withdrawl symptoms went away.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

IIRC, the DNS stipulations have been officially dropped from the agenda by the SOPAists

Apparently there's some dispute over this IIRC.
Some news articles quote as "dropped" but if you actually read the quote, it's removed for further study... so delayed until they pass the bill then they can ram it down your throat later when a "study" is done. Sneaky lawyer speak really.