2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

and I use the term loosely only because I don't think ERA says the full story

Blah. ERA is, I think, the third most useless stat in baseball... falling behind only Pitcher Wins & Errors. Truth be told it does, in fact, not tell the whole story with Oliver as the various DIP measures indicate his ERA outperformed his dERA... that being said it was still pretty good.

His GB% dropped 10 points last year which is kind of worrying but he's a relief pitcher... more prone to statistical swings given that they operate on a smaller sample size year in year out and he's been fairly consistent all things considered over his career.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by moon

The arguments come from hom coming up small in the big moments but Maritimer and I are probably putting too much weight on his crap World Series.

The Blue Jays don't have any big moments so it's all good.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Since when is a fan's liking of a player ever fair? A fan's liking of a player is almost by definition arbitrary.

I don't like Patrick Roy, his numbers say I should love him. People here don't like the Sedin Twins, the numbers say we should love them.

I don't like Oliver, never seems to pitch well for me. At no point did I say it was a bad signing by the Jays (I did say "my condolences" in jest based on my previous statements of dislike of the guy) just that I don't like him and I'm glad he's no longer on my team.

The numbers don't say you should like anyone. They say you should respect their talents.

I can see you disliking Oliver because he hasn't pitched well when you watched, but to completely dismiss the numbers (which you did, but claim not to) is ridiculous.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Blah. ERA is, I think, the third most useless stat in baseball... falling behind only Pitcher Wins & Errors. Truth be told it does, in fact, not tell the whole story with Oliver as the various DIP measures indicate his ERA outperformed his dERA... that being said it was still pretty good.

His GB% dropped 10 points last year which is kind of worrying but he's a relief pitcher... more prone to statistical swings given that they operate on a smaller sample size year in year out and he's been fairly consistent all things considered over his career.

I don't think you can bring up a conversation about useless stats and not bring up RBIs.

[Kelekin]

As much as everyone has been quite impatient this off-season, expecting some amazing, big flashy move, I'm okay with the patient play. When AA took over, it was pretty clear that he didn't think the team would be really competitive until 2014-2015. Then, Romero progressed, Bautista came out of nowhere, and Morrow showed potential. The 2010 season was so full of "moments". But honestly, I rather us keep going the way it is going now. The only move I disliked this off-season was the Frasor trade, and I think Ben Francisco is pretty useless. It was an average off-season, but more importantly, we didn't do anything detrimental to our team or its' future. We do still have Hutchison and McGuire on the cusp, and who knows what the situation will be with Drabek and McGowan. It's going to be a year full of surprises. I am glad our line-up is mostly filled out.

Sometimes patience is key. The Rays played it patient, and they have the potential for a trio better than the Mulder/Zito/Hudson or Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux days with Hellickson, Moore, and Price.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by JayP

The numbers don't say you should like anyone. They say you should respect their talents.

I can see you disliking Oliver because he hasn't pitched well when you watched, but to completely dismiss the numbers (which you did, but claim not to) is ridiculous.

I went back to page 34 when the Oliver discussion started to check to see if I did dismiss the numbers because I didn't think I did.

The closest I've come is:

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

NO!



I'm not a Jays fan, but for your sake I hope this isn't true. i don't know if there's a more over rated pitcher in baseball today. I hate Oliver

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Every time I've watched him pitch over the past two seasons he's undone his belt, pulled his pants down to about his knees, squatted, and taken a huge, raunchy, nutty, disgusting dump on the mound. Then once he was done he would turn to the cameras and give me the finger.

I knew the Rangers had lost Game 6 of the WS the moment I saw he was on the mound (and we were up by two, just three outs away).

I can't stand him.

He tends to come onto the mound with runners on, allows all those runners to score then gets out of the inning. Insanely frustrating as a fan, and doesn't show in his ERA

Where I said I hate Oliver, I mean I hate him on the mound for my team. I theorize he's actually a good guy.

I started the second post saying "every time I've watched him" not "let's look at the numbers".

His numbers may be there, but I don't get to see him in highlight packages, and when I do see him he doesn't play well. It'd be like if you only ever saw Kiprusoff when he has an off game, and never got to see Flames highlights to get another gauge to see how well he plays. Yes, his numbers might say he's great, but if you never see it with your own eyes you'll feel deceived.

I don't wish him ill will, but I have said I'm not a fan, and have said that I wish him the best in Toronto.

[dustyanddaflames]

I wish AA would make a splash so we don't have to keep talking about Darren Oliver.

[socalwingfan]

You may get your wish - Seattle has made a trade for a "significant young bat" Early Speculation is Lawrie/Pineda or Montero/Pineda

EDIT: Back to Oliver - looks like it's Montero for Pineda

[d_phaneuf]

wouldn't trade Lawrie for Pineda so happy it didn't happen

Montero may be a better hitter but he doesn't have a position, Lawrie is going to be an elite hitting 3B

more valuable than a DH or 1B who hits a little better

good deal for Seattle though, they need the bat, have some great pitching prospects that can make up for losing Pineda (Taijuan Walker comes to mind) and Safeco can make an average pitcher good

[nik-]

People would probably be pretty pissed if they traded Lawrie so quickly. I would be.

[Kelekin]

If by good deal you mean stupid ass deal for Seattle, then yes it is. You do not trade a pitcher like that for a hitter who is considered a DH-only, especially one who hasn't achieved anything in the majors. And now the Yankees have another ace-potential pitcher.

[Matty81]

Ya I agree that the Mariners made a pretty bad move there - I think Montero will be a good DH for a while but to trade a starter that young with that kind of stuff for any DH is pretty horrible.

When they fall out of it this year, which will probably be a certainty 40 games in, they are probably going to face intense pressure to trade King Felix. Their division is going to eat them alive again.

[CofR]

wtf Seattle

[secol]

they'll probably still try him at C, but yeah Pineda has a great arm

[ricoFlame]

No arbitration for Rasmus

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...by-rasmus.html

[bluejays]

Cheap, cheap deal for Rasmus. I've been disappointed with the guy since he came here, but know that this year will be a fresh new slate for the guy. I'd have given $5M per year to lock him in for 3 years. One thing about baseball is that teams are always willing to take guys based on potential. Even at $7M, and hitting .240, teams would take him on and give back value.

[flames_1987]

He has the potential to be a perennial all star in this league. A great, smooth swing and can hit for power, strong defensively in center field. Hopefully he's had an offseason to clear his head and can come back strong.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by fleury

Cheap, cheap deal for Rasmus.

It's not really that cheap... not for a 1 year arbitration eligible player anyways. It's about market value (if not a smidge above) I figure, keeping in mind that it's not an open market. He's got so much upside... I'd like to see him lower his K rate though.

[zukes]

According to something I read, I think on DJF, arbitration eligible guys generally get 40%, 60% and 80% of market value in their 3 years of arbitration eligibility, with only a few exceptions. This deal seems about right.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Jays avoid arbitration with Villannueva ($2.2775), Johnson (6.375) and Francisco (1.5375).

Janssen and Morrow are the only two arbitration eligible players left.