2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season - Page 34 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

flames_1987 · 12-30-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It's a one year plus team option contract according to the latest from MLBTR

Definitely a great signing. Now there's no need for Cecil to be put in the position of kind of being the only good LHP option in the pen.

Now the rotation and pen looks like this

Romero
Morrow
Alvarez
Cecil
Drabek/McGowan/other rookies

Long men - Villaneuava Litsch
Other pen guys - Perez, pretty much any other name I might be forgetting
Set up guys - Janssen Carreno Oliver
Closer - Santos

Not bad. Could probably use another 7th/8th inning reliever and a starter of some sort.

I have MCGowan penciled in as the #4 and Cecil being on the bubble big time going into next season, although his offseason has sounded promising so far.

Still a lot of offseason left and although the market may be extremely high right now on Starting Pitching, I think it's pretty obvious that AA is being extremely active in that regard.

Maritime Q-Scout · 12-30-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Darren Oliver anyone?

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/ar...to-sign-w.html

NO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

I sure hope that's true, he is a guy I thought woudl be a great fit for the Jays. A solid veteran lefty that gives them options, but also a reliable vetern source out of what is looking like a pretty young bullpen. If they do indeed get Oliver I would actually argue the Jays bullpen would look pretty darn good.

I'm not a Jays fan, but for your sakeI hope this isn't true. i don't know if there's a more over rated pitcher in baseball today. I hate Oliver

GirlySports · 12-30-2011, 05:22 PM

Oliver would be a terrible signing. Throws 75mph creampuffs

KootenayFlamesFan · 12-30-2011, 05:46 PM

Jays sign pitcher Aaron Laffey.

flames_1987 · 12-30-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

NO!

I'm not a Jays fan, but for your sakeI hope this isn't true. i don't know if there's a more over rated pitcher in baseball today. I hate Oliver

Statistics seem to disagree with that. Good signing for the Jays

ricoFlame · 12-30-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Oliver would be a terrible signing. Throws 75mph creampuffs

So did Jamie Moyer...MPH is so overrated. Greg Maddux threw real heat too...

Maritime Q-Scout · 12-30-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Statistics seem to disagree with that. Good signing for the Jays

Every time I've watched him pitch over the past two seasons he's undone his belt, pulled his pants down to about his knees, squatted, and taken a huge, raunchy, nutty, disgusting dump on the mound. Then once he was done he would turn to the cameras and give me the finger.

I knew the Rangers had lost Game 6 of the WS the moment I saw he was on the mound (and we were up by two, just three outs away).

I can't stand him.

He tends to come onto the mound with runners on, allows all those runners to score then gets out of the inning. Insanely frustrating as a fan, and doesn't show in his ERA

ricoFlame · 12-30-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Every time I've watched him pitch over the past two seasons he's undone his belt, pulled his pants down to about his knees, squatted, and taken a huge, raunchy, nutty, disgusting dump on the mound. Then once he was done he would turn to the cameras and give me the finger.

I knew the Rangers had lost Game 6 of the WS the moment I saw he was on the mound (and we were up by two, just three outs away).

I can't stand him.

He tends to come onto the mound with runners on, allows all those runners to score then gets out of the inning. Insanely frustrating as a fan, and doesn't show in his ERA

Sounds like about 80% of the guys the jays have had in the pen the past 10 years.

moon · 12-30-2011, 07:29 PM

Good signing if they aren't going for it this year as he can provide decent innings for the team but not a guy you want on a contending team as Martimer said.

flames_1987 · 12-30-2011, 07:30 PM

His statistics speak for themselves. Very strong reliever and a LH pitcher was needed for the pen.

ricoFlame · 12-30-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Good signing if they aren't going for it this year as he can provide decent innings for the team but not a guy you want on a contending team as Martimer said.

He's been on playoff teams the past 6 straight years...gimme a break with the contending team stuff.

GirlySports · 12-30-2011, 08:25 PM

Maritimer knows best.

As he said! Oliver couldn't get the Descalso (leftie), Jay(leftie) and THE PITCHER out with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 10th in Game 6.

flames_1987 · 12-30-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Maritimer knows best.

As he said! Oliver couldn't get the Descalso (leftie), Jay(leftie) and THE PITCHER out with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 10th in Game 6.

Seems more then reasonable to judge a pitcher on one outing while ignoring his strong statistics over the last 4 seasons.

Caged Great · 12-30-2011, 08:37 PM

At worst, Darren Oliver will be more or less the left handed version of Shawn Camp, same with Laffey. Not bad signings considering the lefty in the pen was only Luis Perez. Having Oliver and Laffey there instead is a bit better.

GirlySports · 12-30-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Seems more then reasonable to judge a pitcher on one outing while ignoring his strong statistics over the last 4 seasons.

What strong statistics?

Martimer is also right in that Oliver is one of the worse at giving up inherited runs.

And he's 100 years old. He breaks down late in the season.

moon · 12-30-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

He's been on playoff teams the past 6 straight years...gimme a break with the contending team stuff.

Ya but he was bad for those teams.

flames_1987 · 12-30-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

What strong statistics?

Martimer is also right in that Oliver is one of the worse at giving up inherited runs.

And he's 100 years old. He breaks down late in the season.

Ummm the first one that jumps out is over his last four seasons Oliver has been worth 5.4 WAR. As a freaking relief pticher!! More then impressive

The guy has been great against lefties and his numbers against righties make him much more then a specialist. Actually had a .594 OPS vs RH in 2011, better vs LH. 2.40 ERA in 112 1/3 innings for Texas the last two years, holding lefty batters to a .212/.250/.306 batting line during that time.

The four best years of 41 yr old Darren Oliver's career are (from best to fourth best): 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008.

Caged Great · 12-30-2011, 09:11 PM

Even if Oliver is just average, he fills a desperate need for the Jays as a veteran presence in the pen and a LHP. Even if he's only this year's Dotel, it's all good. If we suck again, he'll find his way onto another team, and a prospect magically on to ours.

For a minimal investment, it's all good. It's not like he's making a ton.

Parallex · 12-30-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

He tends to come onto the mound with runners on, allows all those runners to score then gets out of the inning. Insanely frustrating as a fan, and doesn't show in his ERA

A quick look at his stats show him giving up 17 runs last season (compared to 13 earned), 20 to 17 the year before, and zero additional unearned runs the year before. Hardly the situation you seem to be calling his norm. Looking at his peripherals he's probably due some some negative regression on BABIP but not much and he has a positive career and recent season GO/AO ratio (which in the AL East is a good thing to have).

Given his age it's just a matter of time before father time catches up with him so I'm a little concerned with that but ultimately he's just a part of the bullpen and by extension individually not very important. It's an alright signing provided that his dollars aren't the difference between getting a piece of true significance or not.

Speaking of really old guys I wonder if Moyer is going to pitch this year?

moon · 12-30-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Even if Oliver is just average, he fills a desperate need for the Jays as a veteran presence in the pen and a LHP. Even if he's only this year's Dotel, it's all good. If we suck again, he'll find his way onto another team, and a prospect magically on to ours.

For a minimal investment, it's all good. It's not like he's making a ton.

I think that is what the "naysayers" are saying. Fine pickup for you guys but not a guy that can be relied o. If the pennant/wild card is on the line.