Toronto Raptors 2011/2012 Season

[Karl]

Originally Posted by fleury

Ignoring the inaccuracies of any professional sports height and weight statistics, when you watch games, do you really see the guy the same size as Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady? Though his enthusiasm is more than welcome, his stature and upside IMO is similar to Morris Peterson. Effective, but not good enough.

Yeah, Derozan to me looks alot more like 6'5 than 6'7. It is not uncommon for NBA players exaggerate their height upwards by 2 inches anyway.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by fleury

Ignoring the inaccuracies of any professional sports height and weight statistics, when you watch games, do you really see the guy the same size as Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady? Though his enthusiasm is more than welcome, his stature and upside IMO is similar to Morris Peterson. Effective, but not good enough.

Morris Peterson played bigger then Vince anyway. DeRozan has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot by taking it to the rim or by pulling up for a mid range jumper. I'm not saying he is the next Kobe or anything, but with that skill set he can be a go to guy late in games. He elevates high enough on his jumper that you can't block it even if you know it's coming. His actual height is pretty much irrelevant.

[octothorp]

One of the difficulties with projecting DeRozan's potential is finding comparables. I can't find another wing player who scored 17 pts a game as a 21 year old without a decent 3 point shooting game. He's a real anomaly in that way.
When he was drafted, he was seen as an extremely raw guy who had never been coached on the weaknesses in his game (half-court offense, defense, shooting). He'll always be an elite transition player, but in most other aspects of the game he's still very early on in the development process.
I think his size is fine if he learns to play a bit more of a SG game and create more room for himself (and his teammates) with his shot. He consistently gives an excellent effort but still makes bad decisions and is too tentative at times, and that goes to his relative inexperience and rawness. Still, I can't imagine the Raptors trading him unless it was a crazy return. His ceiling is still borderline all-star; he's got a lot of work to do and a lot of time to do it in to get to that point.

[moon]

Originally Posted by octothorp

One of the difficulties with projecting DeRozan's potential is finding comparables. I can't find another wing player who scored 17 pts a game as a 21 year old without a decent 3 point shooting game. He's a real anomaly in that way.
When he was drafted, he was seen as an extremely raw guy who had never been coached on the weaknesses in his game (half-court offense, defense, shooting). He'll always be an elite transition player, but in most other aspects of the game he's still very early on in the development process.

He reminds of Jamal Crawford. Jack it up, play no defense, ignore teammates and hope that your stats look good at the end of the game regardless if team wins or loses.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

He reminds of Jamal Crawford. Jack it up, play no defense, ignore teammates and hope that your stats look good at the end of the game regardless if team wins or loses.

You now make me L O L

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by moon

He reminds of Jamal Crawford. Jack it up, play no defense, ignore teammates and hope that your stats look good at the end of the game regardless if team wins or loses.

That is an awful, awful comparison/description. DD shot just under 50% last season, so clearly he is not a chucker. He also gets to the free throw line at a decent rate.

[flames_1987]

I think it's best if we want to have any type of constructive talk about the Raptors this season, that we avoid a certain poster who adds nothing to this thread.

Going to face a very desperate Dallas team tonight, a great early test.

[Suave]

What about another former 9th pick as an upside comparable, Iguodala? Both athletic guys, who can finish around the rim, run the floor and get to the line. Iggy has a better all round game but DeRozan is still pretty raw and learning. When he was drafted he was a project that wasn't supposed to start contributing until year two or three.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I think it's best if we want to have any type of constructive talk about the Raptors this season, that we avoid a certain poster who adds nothing to this thread.

LOL

Because I don't drink the kool-aid that a team that was bottom 3 last year and picked by many to be in the same boat this has everything going great I add nothing?

I guess if you want a thread where everyone agrees that things are great and no other opinions are allowed go ahead and ignore folks with a different view.

[moon]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

That is an awful, awful comparison/description. DD shot just under 50% last season, so clearly he is not a chucker. He also gets to the free throw line at a decent rate.

He is not a chucker but he is a "gunner" like Crawford that he is more concerned about his scoring than a team game, in my view.

[flames_1987]

Bargnani with a hell of a first half 7-8 for 18 points and 5 boards

[flames_1987]

Another good result for the Raptors. Another strong effort, and another loss closer to a lottery pick this season. Mindset and attitude seems to have changed quite a bit with Casey around. Many noticeable differences

[moon]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Another good result for the Raptors. Another strong effort, and another loss closer to a lottery pick this season. Mindset and attitude seems to have changed quite a bit with Casey around. Many noticeable differences

I realize you are ignoring my comments but Casey is definitely a positive for this team going forward.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Another good result for the Raptors. Another strong effort, and another loss closer to a lottery pick this season. Mindset and attitude seems to have changed quite a bit with Casey around. Many noticeable differences

As a member of the "Tank Nation" these games are perfect. Nice to see some hustle on the defensive end. Still can't cover anybody when it counts but hey other teams have star finishers they can give the ball to in the crunch. I was hoping for a good year from Davis but so far he looks to be struggling.

[killer_carlson]

surprised Chisholm on tsn is even floating the idea of the raptors trading away their #1 pick this year. He framed it in a move for Rondo, but wow.....I think that is the only untouchable piece in the entire organization.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Perfect result tonight: they get down big, show a fantastic effort, but ultimately lose a close one. Hopefully they've got a lot more like that in them this year. They held the Pacers to under 40% shooting, which should be the goal every night.

DeRozan looks to have much better range this year. Looked very confident draining 4th quarter 3s. Bargnani looked same as ever rebounding, but acceptable defense with a few exceptions in help situations. His offense was solid: passed well, and not too many long 2pt jumpers. Either 3s or short jumpers and dunks, which is what his offense should be. Bayless: 1 assist in 18 minutes. I'm still loving both Johnsons but JJ was guilty on a few late defensive lapses. Still, he was +8 and everyone else on the team was a minus.

another game like you described. I was flipping between the raptors v magic and the flames v preds.

The Raptors are close, very close, to being a playoff contender. Efforts and games like this bode well for next year, as does whomever they add at the draft.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

another game like you described. I was flipping between the raptors v magic and the flames v preds.

The Raptors are close, very close, to being a playoff contender. Efforts and games like this bode well for next year, as does whomever they add at the draft.

I agree, they are getting close. Andrea Bargnani has been very impressive so far this year. His offensive game has progressed enough that he can actually be our go-to option out there. His is scoring very efficiently. His defense has also improved a fair bit under Casey. I have been a harsh critic of AB, but I am starting to think he could be a big part of our future.

On a more sour note, Ed Davis has been pretty awful so far. I hope he starts to pick it up soon and start being an impact player.

[bluejays]

^ AB's scoring has been good this year so far, but his defence is awful. I frankly don't think that part of his game has improved a lick. When you're a 7 foot player and a PG is blowing by you consistently and doing layups, like Jameer Nelson was doing tonight, you know you're a ####ty defensive player. A coach can coach all he wants, but the player has to want to play that style, and I don't think we'll ever see Bargnani get dirty on a consistent basis. He simply doesn't have a pair.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by fleury

^ AB's scoring has been good this year so far, but his defence is awful. I frankly don't think that part of his game has improved a lick. When you're a 7 foot player and a PG is blowing by you consistently and doing layups, like Jameer Nelson was doing tonight, you know you're a ####ty defensive player. A coach can coach all he wants, but the player has to want to play that style, and I don't think we'll ever see Bargnani get dirty on a consistent basis. He simply doesn't have a pair.

To give him credit he is hustling. He is just stupid and that's just his BB IQ. Casey has simplified it for him as he just hedges bigtime each play but can't get back quickly enough on the pick and roll. As for the defender of the paint role he just can't do it. Plus the stupid guards get blown by so often it's sad--but not really. It is actually great. AB scores, DD scores, they hustle and lose. Casey can polish up the offense to make it a bit more entertaining, Kleiza can help a bit with that when he returns.

Meanwhile watch NC and Kentucky games and look at our next pick whoever that turns out to be.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

To give him credit he is hustling. He is just stupid and that's just his BB IQ. Casey has simplified it for him as he just hedges bigtime each play but can't get back quickly enough on the pick and roll. As for the defender of the paint role he just can't do it. Plus the stupid guards get blown by so often it's sad--but not really. It is actually great. AB scores, DD scores, they hustle and lose. Casey can polish up the offense to make it a bit more entertaining, Kleiza can help a bit with that when he returns.

Meanwhile watch NC and Kentucky games and look at our next pick whoever that turns out to be.

I don't think Casey has any interest in making AB our paint protector. He has moved him to PF despite the fact that we have nobody else who can play that role either.

I am a huge fan of defensive basketball, and I have long been frustrated watching AB have no clue how to play help defense, but he creates enough of a match-up nightmare on offense that he still has great value to this team. His on-ball defense is actually pretty good too, but like you said, his basketball IQ on the defensive end is poor so his help D will likely never improve.

The main improvement that I have seen with him has been his effort on the glass. I haven't seen him get owned on the boards like he has in previous years.