US/Saudi sign $30 billion dollar arms deal

[Azure]

The U.S. has formally announced a $30 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia which is set to create around 50,000 jobs for Americans grappling with an ailing economy.

The deal had been signed on Saturday in Saudi capital Riyadh but was announced by U.S. officials in Hawaii on Thursday.

According to the agreement, the U.S. will provide the Saudi military with 84 new Boeing F-15SA fighter jets and modernize 70 existing warplanes.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/middle-ea...lion-arms-deal

So they sign a deal with a country friendly to terrorists because they have 'oil'...but Obama won't approve the Keystone Pipeline that would reduce the need for oil from nations friendly to terrorists, like Saudi Arabia.

Interesting where the priorities of the Obama administration are.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Azure

http://www.tehrantimes.com/middle-ea...lion-arms-deal

So they sign a deal with a country friendly to terrorists because they have 'oil'...but Obama won't approve the Keystone Pipeline that would reduce the need for oil from nations friendly to terrorists, like Saudi Arabia.

Interesting where the priorities of the Obama administration are.

Slightly more complicated than that. They are also trying to contain Iran. This means arming Iran's enemies as much as possible. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey will all be getting upgrades on their weaponry.

[TurnedTheCorner]

At least there's no chance any of these arms could be funneled to Al Queda. Wait...

[worth]

30 billion arms is enough for 15 billion people. There are only 7 billion people on this planet. What are they going to do with all those arms?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

At least there's no chance any of these arms could be funneled to Al Queda. Wait...

Actually, that's completely true. What would Al Qaeda do with an F-15 anyway? It takes years of training to learn how to fly a modern jet fighter, and they're incredibly expensive to operate. Also, it would also be much easier for the US military to defend itself against conventional weapons like an F-15SA than to defend against unconventional tactics like suicide bombers, IEDs, and the like.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by blankall

Slightly more complicated than that. They are also trying to contain Iran. This means arming Iran's enemies as much as possible. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey will all be getting upgrades on their weaponry.

Yes, because it has always worked out well to arm the enemy of our enemy.

I get that the jobs will be good for the US economy, but long-term, this won't do any good at all. Saudi Arabia is known to support terrorist groups.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by worth

30 billion arms is enough for 15 billion people. There are only 7 billion people on this planet. What are they going to do with all those arms?

I read that in Frank Drebin's voice thanks to your avatar.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Actually, that's completely true. What would Al Qaeda do with an F-15 anyway? It takes years of training to learn how to fly a modern jet fighter, and they're incredibly expensive to operate. Also, it would also be much easier for the US military to defend itself against conventional weapons like an F-15SA than to defend against unconventional tactics like suicide bombers, IEDs, and the like.

I think the overall point is that the US is funnelling money and arms, besides just the F-15s to a country that is often friendly to terrorist groups.

Quite frankly I could care less if they sell anyone F-15s. The technology, as advanced as Saudi Arabia will think it is, will still be extremely dumbed down.

My problem is that the US does this deal partly to keep Iran in check, and partly because they need oil from Saudi Arabia. And yet the Keystone Pipeline is pushed to the side, and Canada is willing to provide the US with oil and we don't even need a $30 billion dollar arms deal.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yes, because it has always worked out well to arm the enemy of our enemy.

I don't think American presidents are so dumb that this is always a mistake when it happens.

It's difficult to find an excuse to disarm a country if the country isn't heavily armed to begin with. Arming a dictatorship is usually the first step to invading the dictatorship.

Make the monster, destroy the monster, then reap the spoils of war. Rinse and repeat.

[Azure]

I realize that it is slightly more complicated than how we look at it, and as a superpower the US has to try and keep countries like Iran in check.

But, Saddam was doing a perfectly good job of that, and now suddenly Iran is threatening all kinds of stupid crap not even a few years after Saddam has been removed from power.

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

It is just strange to me that the US is so willing to approve deals like this, but they like to make a big deal out of environmental reviews and pushing off deals like the Keystone Pipeline.

[Lt.Spears]

Originally Posted by Azure

I realize that it is slightly more complicated than how we look at it, and as a superpower the US has to try and keep countries like Iran in check.

But, Saddam was doing a perfectly good job of that, and now suddenly Iran is threatening all kinds of stupid crap not even a few years after Saddam has been removed from power.

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

It is just strange to me that the US is so willing to approve deals like this, but they like to make a big deal out of environmental reviews and pushing off deals like the Keystone Pipeline.

Saudis don't vote here, hippies do.

[Calgaryborn]

Unless there is evidence that the military can't be trusted with whatever their being sold I'm in favour of this. Being as the sale is for planes and parts for planes it should be safe. 50 000 jobs is 50 000 jobs.

Now watch Obama's fund raising suddenly get a bump.

[FlamesAddiction]

And let's face it, if not the Americans, it would be someone else. Might as well have the Saudis using your weapons so you know all their strengths and weakness.

It's crappy the world works this way.

[CaptainCrunch]

Saudi Arabia has a more powerfull lobby group in the States then Canada does spending in excess of $100 million

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Azure

My problem is that the US does this deal partly to keep Iran in check, and partly because they need oil from Saudi Arabia. And yet the Keystone Pipeline is pushed to the side, and Canada is willing to provide the US with oil and we don't even need a $30 billion dollar arms deal.

I wonder if Saudi Arabia has had any influence in the delay of the Keystone pipeline. Today it is probably Saudi oil being refined in Texas.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Unless there is evidence that the military can't be trusted with whatever their being sold I'm in favour of this. Being as the sale is for planes and parts for planes it should be safe. 50 000 jobs is 50 000 jobs.

Now watch Obama's fund raising suddenly get a bump.

I was curious about that, and besides the massive Saudi back lobby groups in the States the only thing that I could find on Obama's fundraising campaigns and the possibility of foreign contributions was a failsified Maureen Odowd report.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I wonder if Saudi Arabia has had any influence in the delay of the Keystone pipeline. Today it is probably Saudi oil being refined in Texas.

That's been one of the major complaints from the Canadian Oil Industry is that a lot of the environmental, anti Oil Sands groups in Canada and the States have received donations from Saudi Interests.

[blankall]

You also have to look at the sway the Saudis have in the arab world. They are the biggest dog in the arab world. If you want to keep the arab world, in general, happy, then you have to buy off the Saudis.

You've also got the major US military bases in Saudi Arabia. These play a strategic role in America's middle east policy.

Another issue is Russia and China. The US could easily put a contingent agreement on this arms sale, like you must allow political reform. However, the Saudis would probably jsut say screw you, we're going to warm up to China and Russia instead. China and Russia are all about their own interests (even moreso than the US) and are totally uninterested in any kind of human or environmental rights.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Unless there is evidence that the military can't be trusted with whatever their being sold I'm in favour of this. Being as the sale is for planes and parts for planes it should be safe. 50 000 jobs is 50 000 jobs.

Now watch Obama's fund raising suddenly get a bump.

This is exactly it. The F-15 is better than whatever Iran has, but it doesn't stack up against the new F-35s. The US can easily decide to "take away" these planes if push comes to shove.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blankall

You also have to look at the sway the Saudis have in the arab world. They are the biggest dog in the arab world. If you want to keep the arab world, in general, happy, then you have to buy off the Saudis.

You've also got the major US military bases in Saudi Arabia. These play a strategic role in America's middle east policy.

Another issue is Russia and China. The US could easily put a contingent agreement on this arms sale, like you must allow political reform. However, the Saudis would probably jsut say screw you, we're going to warm up to China and Russia instead. China and Russia are all about their own interests (even moreso than the US) and are totally uninterested in any kind of human or environmental rights.

Yup, there's a vicious circle argument to America wanting to gain energy independance. The minute that they reduce their reliance on mid east fossil fuels China and Russia will certainly take advantage of it and push their own agenda.

But, in all fairness, shouldn't the environmental groups be complaining about all of these tankers and underwater pipeline systems that could damage the fragile oceans of the world.