2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[Saint Troy]

That's crazy money considering the success rate of previous Japanese pitchers. If you are going to spend crazy money, it should be on an every day player like Fielder or a sure thing pitcher like Hallady or Lee, IMO.

[browna]

I think most of the "anger" by those fans upset at this, are at Rogers for saying they'll spend the money, but then finish the bridesmaid....down to the end on the pitcher from the Padres, some chatter about Fielder but only a 4 or 5 year deal, etc.

One thing this has shown is that there are casual Jays fans out there that want the team to make big moves.

It will be interesting to see if what the Jays bid, assuming they did, and how they put the spin on this.

Given the hype around the guy for the past months, I think it was fairly safe to assume he'd get Dice K type posting fees, considering he got them 4 or 5 years ago (overpaid or not). The Rangers just topped that, but not by much. So did the Blue Jays put in a bid, in a serious attempt? If so, why not go over $52M which what Dice K got? Or was it $40M, knowing they likely weren't going to be the high bid, but still flashing a large dump truck of cash?

My guess is that if they were close and thought they had it, being within a couple million, they'll say as muchand be genuine about it (even though if they really wanted hin, spending more than Dice K would've probably been the starting point). If they weren't close at the end, they'll just say they made a significant run at the player but say that clearly the asking price was too steep, as it was for most teams.

In that regard, reminds me a bit of Feaster with Richards. No doubt the Flames made Richards think twice out of the blue, but all Feaster did was change the likelihood from 98% to 95% in the Rangers favour, but the exercise showed the NHL world that he still exsisted was willing and able to make big moves. He did that even though he knew he was never going to pull that off, and there wasn't a plan b) player to fall back on, it was that or nothing, but it made him look in charge and in control and committed to change.

In this case, AA and Rogers may be just fine with the fact they didn't get him and it was never as big a probability as was hyped to be from the Jays. However, it got them December PR coverage with casual fans tuning in, and put the fans and the MLB world on alert that the Blue Jays are lurking and may (or may not) had a bunch of cash to now spend despite this. It gives the illusion that there's more to the budget then what it looks like, until proven otherwise.

[bluejays]

Although the article just states at the bottom, the possible players the Jays should go after, I'm all up for James Shields. Little chance TB and the Jays would do a trade though.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...rvish-bid?bn=1

[REDVAN]

Would not be surprised to see a huge move by the Jays in the next few days - just to temper the rabidness that this has caused in the fan base.

[Caged Great]

Gio Gonzalez or Roy Oswalt to Toronto in 3.....2....1........

[Montagna]

I hope they don't go after Gonzalez. The A's want the moon and his track record against the AL East is terrible.

[GirlySports]

I think they bid too low. I'm surprised such a low bid of 51.7 won it. AA will be kicking himself.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think they bid too low. I'm surprised such a low bid of 51.7 won it. AA will be kicking himself.

Well, they could divert 45 million to say Roy Oswalt over 3 years, and have pretty much the same production that Yu would get under ideal circumstances, without having to worry about the additional 60-75 million that Darvish will get.

[dustyanddaflames]

Any way you cut it - the Blue Jays have roughly 130-150 million to play with this morning, that they wouldn't have had if they landed Darvish's negotiating rights. That is a lot of dollars to throw around via free agency/trade.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Jays jump back in on Fielder, and then move Lind/prospects/excess OF's to a club for a starting pitcher that slots at least into the #2. Regardless of what happened last night - we as fans at least have an understanding at the type of financing that Rogers' has made available to Anthopolous...

Who ever said James Shields, I had that thought last night - and the deal makes sense for both clubs if they can get over the fact that they're dealing within their own division. The Rays stockpile prospects, the Jays own a pretty nice farm system of their own - could work right? Right?

[Caged Great]

There are quite a few options that seem interesting, whether it's a guy like Oswalt, or trade candidate like Gonzalez, or Garza, or having an internal competition between Cecil, Drabek, Alvarez, Hutchison, Snydergaard, McGuire, McGowan, Jenkins, and any other nearly ready pitching prospects that we may have.

It just depends on whether or not the jays actually want to spend more than a couple bucks, or if they're going to be complete cheapskates.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Would not be surprised to see a huge move by the Jays in the next few days - just to temper the rabidness that this has caused in the fan base.

I don't know if the Jays should do that for that reason. It would be like a poker player on tilt because he just lost out on a huge pot. Make a move because a player you want can be had for what youbthink is a fair price. Don't make a big move to appease fans, because those same fans will turn when it proves to be catastrophic.

[dustyanddaflames]

Blue Jays fans got their hopes up for Darvish and now face staggering disappointment, as Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca writes. However, Davidi hears the Blue Jays "have a number of balls in the air" beyond Darvish.

From MLBTR

[The Big Chill]

Fans in DJF and TSN are in full flip-out-at-Rogers mode. It's amazing how angry they are getting when I bet that the vast majority of them had never heard of Darvish a week ago. AA has a bit of a mess on his hands now, but as much as I want to see some roster improvements I really hope that we don't make any panic moves.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Fans in DJF and TSN are in full flip-out-at-Rogers mode. It's amazing how angry they are getting when I bet that the vast majority of them had never heard of Darvish a week ago. AA has a bit of a mess on his hands now, but as much as I want to see some roster improvements I really hope that we don't make any panic moves.

It's more a PR mistake and it shows how starved Blue Jays fans are for a winner after nearly 20 years of losing. I don't think they're flipping out because of Darvish, it could have been anyone. They're just tired of losing and being 2nd best all winter so far. This was an opportunity to win the fans back. If the Jays indeed lost a bunch of fans (justified or not) over a couple of million dollars, that's a serious blunder.

If the Jays really wanted to make a splash they needed to go big or go home. 60 million$ bid.

If the Jays bid less then Dice-Ks 51.1 million (which it seem they certainly did) then they were more hoping to get him rather than standing up and saying F-Yu all were getting him. If a 60 million$ bid had lost I don't think there would be as much backlash today.

[ricoFlame]

Gio is a mistake, he will get lit up in the Rogers centre...especially with the number of guys he puts on base. I sincerely hope they're not going to waste any talent/prospects on him

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's more a PR mistake and it shows how starved Blue Jays fans are for a winner after nearly 20 years of losing. I don't think they're flipping out because of Darvish, it could have been anyone. They're just tired of losing and being 2nd best all winter so far. This was an opportunity to win the fans back. If the Jays indeed lost a bunch of fans (justified or not) over a couple of million dollars, that's a serious blunder.

If the Jays really wanted to make a splash they needed to go big or go home. 60 million$ bid.

If the Jays bid less then Dice-Ks 51.1 million (which it seem they certainly did) then they were more hoping to get him rather than standing up and saying F-Yu all were getting him. If a 60 million$ bid had lost I don't think there would be as much backlash today.

What Dice-K got is irrelevant. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up. Sure, Darvish is the better prospect and you'd expect him to get more, but there's a long list of other mitigating factors to consider. Things like who's bidding (no Yankees/Red Sox involved) and apprehension after Dice-K didn't pan out.

Simply saying that the Jays weren't serious because they didn't bid more than another team did 5+ years ago is ridiculous. The market is completely different. If the conditions were the same, Darvish would've got bid for $60+ considering how much better he is than Dice-K.

[JayP]

I think everyone should step back from the Darvish hype and take solace in this:

If the 5 year/$75 million contract is what Darvish ends up getting (and he'll likely get something close to that), the Jays would end up paying an average of $25 million/year for Darvish. That's more than any other pitcher in the MLB. Darvish is a pretty sure bet to be an MLB pitcher (I don't think he'll flame out), but from the scouting reports I've read he isn't a good bet to become a dominant #1 ace either.

Whoever gets Darvish probably gets value back from that contract through a combination of on-field value and marketing value, but to fans that marketing value is irrelevant. At the end of the day Darvish most likely isn't worth that contract on the field and that's all fans should be concerned about.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by JayP

What Dice-K got is irrelevant. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up. Sure, Darvish is the better prospect and you'd expect him to get more, but there's a long list of other mitigating factors to consider. Things like who's bidding (no Yankees/Red Sox involved) and apprehension after Dice-K didn't pan out.

Simply saying that the Jays weren't serious because they didn't bid more than another team did 5+ years ago is ridiculous. The market is completely different. If the conditions were the same, Darvish would've got bid for $60+ considering how much better he is than Dice-K.

Sure I think it's relevant. There always has to be comparisons. The market is the market. For example Pujols signs a contract just 2 million more than A-Rod's 252 million. If a team thought they would get Pujols for less than 252 they were mistaken. The Angels realized this and snuck in and got him while everyone else was twiddling their thumbs over term and money.

Scouts say Darvish is much better than Dice-K so the bid should be higher especially if a team is gonig into a blind auction. The Rangers bid just 600000 more than the Dice-K bid. If the Jays just bid around 45 million then they were not serious. If they thought oh the Yankees or the Red Sox aren't in it so the market must be down, they were mistaken. Better to overbid then to come up emptyhanded. Rogers should have blown them out of the water or not bid at all.

Originally Posted by JayP

I think everyone should step back from the Darvish hype and take solace in this:

If the 5 year/$75 million contract is what Darvish ends up getting (and he'll likely get something close to that), the Jays would end up paying an average of $25 million/year for Darvish. That's more than any other pitcher in the MLB. Darvish is a pretty sure bet to be an MLB pitcher (I don't think he'll flame out), but from the scouting reports I've read he isn't a good bet to become a dominant #1 ace either.

Whoever gets Darvish probably gets value back from that contract through a combination of on-field value and marketing value, but to fans that marketing value is irrelevant. At the end of the day Darvish most likely isn't worth that contract on the field and that's all fans should be concerned about.

I agree, they should not have bid on him at all. But since they did and lost... that's just bad news.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Fans in DJF and TSN are in full flip-out-at-Rogers mode. It's amazing how angry they are getting when I bet that the vast majority of them had never heard of Darvish a week ago. AA has a bit of a mess on his hands now, but as much as I want to see some roster improvements I really hope that we don't make any panic moves.

Jays fans for the most part want the big name player acquistion.... so far the off-season has been very quiet and un event full.

Could be a PR night mare for the Jays.....

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Sure I think it's relevant. There always has to be comparisons. The market is the market. For example Pujols signs a contract just 2 million more than A-Rod's 252 million. If a team thought they would get Pujols for less than 252 they were mistaken. The Angels realized this and snuck in and got him while everyone else was twiddling their thumbs over term and money.

People make comparisons, but in terms of pure economics it's ridiculous. If market conditions are different so why should the numbers stay the same?

Scouts say Darvish is much better than Dice-K so the bid should be higher especially if a team is gonig into a blind auction. The Rangers bid just 600000 more than the Dice-K bid. If the Jays just bid around 45 million then they were not serious. If they thought oh the Yankees or the Red Sox aren't in it so the market must be down, they were mistaken. Better to overbid then to come up emptyhanded. Rogers should have blown them out of the water or not bid at all.

Like I said, since Darvish is that much better than Dice-K why would he get only $600k more in the bidding? Market conditions. The teams involved, apprehension of bidding so much after Dice-K didn't pan out, etc. If Darvish blows Dice-K out of the water then why should we even consider a bid of a few thousand more serious? Shouldn't the winning bid have cleared $55-60 million then? The fact that Darvish got basically the same as Dice-K shows the market was down.

And, no, it's not better to overbid than come up empty handed. It's ridiculously short-sighted to say that the Jays should've bid $60m just "to make sure". AA had a value he established for Darvish and Texas exceeded it. To go over that limit is what bad general managers do.