Multiple "suspicious Deaths" close Hwy 2 at Claresholm bioth directions

[Knut]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Among it's many, many faults, this is one of my concerns about the Twilight books/movies. I've read critiques that state the main vampire dude breaks into the girl's bedroom at night and watches her sleep. The author doesn't portray this behaviour as being the actions of a sick degenerate voyeur but rather that of a romantic. So now we're going to get a generation of young teenage girls who read in their favourite novel that being stalked is endearing and a bunch of creepy teenage boys who think they're only giving the girls what they want.

I am sure that teenage boys that read Twilight would likely have allready been inclined to watch girls (or guys) sleep.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Hesla

I am sure that teenage boys that read Twilight would likely have allready been inclined to watch girls (or guys) sleep.

I don't imagine there are many teenage boys who actually read Twilight. I meant that they'd absorb it through the cultural Zeitgeist because all the girls in their school are talking about it.

[Drake]

Courtney Crosby, Shayna's sis, gave us permission 2 use this touching foto of them in Shayna's hospital room #pei

https://twitter.com/#!/ryhicks/status/148796976555769856

[jydk]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I can't help but wonder if there are any depression meds and/or mental illness that factored in somehow.

It seems like such an extreme snap for what seems like a composed individual, according to friends...

I wonder about this too. What if after leaving his friends at the bar, the killer went home and took a prescribed psychoactive drug, such Ambien, to sleep. This drug is known to cause people to do complex activities while asleep. I'm not saying I believe this is what happend, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn if it did.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jydk

I wonder about this too. What if after leaving his friends at the bar, the killer went home and took a prescribed psychoactive drug, such Ambien, to sleep. This drug is known to cause people to do complex activities while asleep. I'm not saying I believe this is what happend, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn if it did.

If you read all the comments about this individual, his friends say one minute that he was so nice and such a calm guy and he'd be the last person you expect to snap, but then the same friends talk about him "pushing" her, getting people to watch her, plus other "not-so-nice" things.

It actually makes me wonder what is normal behaviour for this group of friends if pushing a woman and stalking her is considered something a nice guy does.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

No he doesn't, he committed suicide after slaying 3 almost 4 people.

Look, I know he is dead. Again, I want to make it clear that I am not looking for sympathy for him, only the friends and family of killer.

To respond to your suicide point. Here is a question, and I can't answer this one for this case, but why did the guy kill himself? Was it because he didn't want to go to jail? He didn't want to be on the run from the cops? He said screw it, and pulled the trigger?

Or, did he realize what he did, after awaking from a blind uncontrollable fit, and realize "Oh God what have I done?", and carry out summary judgement on himself?

It is a small point, but an important one. If it is the later (and I don't know), it shows the guy had morals in the end, and a sense of right and wrong at the moment of his death. It shows that he snapped, and what he did was not who he was.

This question will be unpopular (or met with in deference) with the news junkies who didn't know this guy from Tom last week. However, this is something that us friends of these guys hang on to. Does it excuse him in any way, no. Does it mean he should be remembered in any way positively in public? no.

However, there are plenty of these guys who do crimes like this, and make a run for it. They wouldn't dare pay the price for their own actions with their life. They will even do 3 life sentences rather than killing themselves (and yes, I also understand that a human cannot live 3 times).

I dunno if that makes it any better, but I really would like to know this. Why didn't he run if he was such a spineless cowardly horrible monster who lived an evil life? ie: was he deep down an evil person, or a good person who in a moment of weakness did a horrible thing?

(Before you put me on blast for sticking up for the guy, I refer you again to my first paragraph of this post)

[Brewmaster]

A 'moment of weakness' is a poor description for such a sequence of events. He hunted them down in his car with 3 loaded guns for what, an hour? It didn't exactly happen in a moment.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

It is a small point, but an important one. If it is the later (and I don't know), it shows the guy had morals in the end, and a sense of right and wrong at the moment of his death. It shows that he snapped, and what he did was not who he was.

At this point you're grasping at straws. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you're wrong. We'll never know. All we do know for sure is that he shot 4 people and then turned the gun on himself. Clearly there were deeper issues.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

A 'moment of weakness' is a poor description for such a sequence of events. He hunted them down in his car with 3 loaded guns for what, an hour? It didn't exactly happen in a moment.

that's why I'm having trouble with the whole moment of anger, or he just snapped argument. This was cold man, he planned this by packing guns in his car and he chased them down. When from the sounds of it the first girl stepped out of the car he blasted her and then proceeded to blast the other car with a semi automatic pistol.

He had lots of opportunities to stop himself and he chose not to, to me thats not the sign of a emotional angry guy, thats the sign of a cold blooded killer.

So I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if I want to believe that he killed himself over regret for what he'd done, I would guess that the suicide was a part of the plan so that he would believe that there would be some sympathy for him after he was gone.

Or he was too cowardly to face up to what he'd done.

But the kid sounds like he was a grade A creep who did what most grade A creeps do, he was good at controlling or manipulating his environment and he didn't like it when it changed.

If there's a hell out there, its the appropriate place for monsters like him.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by fotze

I bet the rage, jealousy thing was amplified by the liquorin' of the night. They had broken up for a long time, but this chance meeting set him off.

I ain't no head shrinking analyst, but usually the jealous people or drunk people don't plan they just do it, maybe the chance meeting set him up, but after that every action spoke to deliberate planning. Load guns into car - check, follow them - check ram car check keep firing check.

Originally Posted by fotze

I know a guy who cannot drink whiskey, turns into a psycho. Look at that loser who mowed down that kid at that bar that just got convicted. Rage problem guys who drink have been kiling people since booze was invented and will until the end of time.

That guy was a psycho for a long time, he didn't need the booze to set him off, he'd been doing crazy stuff for the longest time. And as the girl testified who was the passenger he was pretty deliberate in what he did. It was pretty much premeditated based on his actions.

Originally Posted by fotze

We have all seen guys who resemble this. They get past that point and sometimes they get a thought in their head that someone insulted them and you cannot get it out of their mind, you need to get them to drink more to get them physically ######ed or by some miracle physically remove them.

For the most part those guys just impulse do it, they get the through in their head and execute it immediately, but the longer between the thought in their head and the action the more likely that they'll stop.

Originally Posted by fotze

This is pure theory on my part but it seems to be big dudes that work out or as table5 refers to them (jockhomos). Never seen a scrawny nerd type go psycho. Testosterone lacking? I have also seen those midget guys that workout go psycho too. This is a poorly tested theory I admit and welcome it to be shot down.

I don't know, the kids that shot up Columbine were pretty nerdy, Dahlmer and Bundy weren't work out machines. Its funny because when I read most wanted signs in the paper, its not overly big guys that are the dangerous ones its the 5-11 150 pound guys that are the violent criminals.

[GFG4Life]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

A 'moment of weakness' is a poor description for such a sequence of events. He hunted them down in his car with 3 loaded guns for what, an hour? It didn't exactly happen in a moment.

Don't forget him being quoted as saying "This night’s not going to end well for you, I hope you know that". Who knows if what actually happened was what he was alluding to. But i too don't believe it was a 'moment of weakness'

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by GFG4Life

Don't forget him being quoted as saying "This night’s not going to end well for you, I hope you know that". Who knows if what actually happened was what he was alluding to. But i too don't believe it was a 'moment of weakness'

See, I could almost buy the argument that he hit a girl in a 'moment of weakness'. But loading up your car with loaded guns and driving an hour or so to catch up to your targets lasts a little bit longer then a moment.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know, the kids that shot up Columbine were pretty nerdy, Dahlmer and Bundy weren't work out machines. Its funny because when I read most wanted signs in the paper, its not overly big guys that are the dangerous ones its the 5-11 150 pound guys that are the violent criminals.

It's the 'Despite being physically smaller, I'm willing to get crazier than you!' types I find end up the violent criminals.

[REDVAN]

Alcohol should not be an excuse in this case, nor any case.

Just because he was at a bar doesn't mean he drank either. It has no bearing on him being a crazy killer.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know, the kids that shot up Columbine were pretty nerdy, Dahlmer and Bundy weren't work out machines. Its funny because when I read most wanted signs in the paper, its not overly big guys that are the dangerous ones its the 5-11 150 pound guys that are the violent criminals.

In my testosterone fuelled brawling days, I usually handled my self pretty well. I went through a early-mid 90's bar fight phase. Don't seem to see that stuff much anymore, because there is just too much pack mentality, and "what if the guy is packing", nowadays.

The one time, I got absolutely demolished, was by "that guy" you are talking about CC. At that time, I was 6'1, 225 or so, and I just got destroyed by 5'7" twitchy, wiry, bug eyed, sharp cheek bone, pock face, handle bar moustache guy with mullet. The guy was like the T1000, he just kept coming at me and wouldn't stop. Like a robot. The dude just locked eyes, and kept swinging. He was definitely jacked up on something, but I was taught a lesson that night. I also learned the roll of quarters trick too. It felt like I was being hit with a rock.

Weirdest part though, and I will never forget it. Is the guy offered to drive me to the hospital after to get sewn up, as he split my melon open. He kinda had that weird Menedez vibe, so I politely declined, and dragged myself out of the Livewire with my tail between my legs, and drove myself. I didn't want the guy making a skin suit out of me later.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

At risk of derailling this thread:

One thing that has to stop is that motif in films, television, books, et al that 'persistance pays off.' A lot of love stories in movies actually celebrate male protagonists that incesstantly berate and annoy the objects of their affection until the female experiences a moment of capitulation after a grand gesture put on by the male protagonist whereby they end up together forever happily. This gives young males the idea that this kind of behavior is not only tolerated but actually welcomed when in reality it conditions them towards behavior that can turn them into a stalker and/or predator.

Fair point but if kids have a proper inner circle (parents, friends, siblings, coaches, church members etc.) then they learn that Hollywood is what it is...entertainment. It's unfortunate that too many kids are taught life via tv, internet, music etc. not by that inner circle. It's one of the biggest black eyes of current society in my books.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya I said excuse, durr. I said the boozy snapping also, skinny nerds are for the shoot up the school style violence.

Didn't mean to single you out- just felt that comment of mine was needed.

That said, I have a big pet peeve when people use alcohol as an excuse for behavior- be it a rage, a fight, sleeping with an ugly girl.

Yes, I've drank, and done some stuff that was "dumb." Never hurt anyone or any thing, but maybe was a bit of an idiot.

Drinking lowers your inhibitions, but it doesn't really make you do anything you wouldn't have done anyway. Regardless of how ugly she is, the alcohol didn't push you over the edge of wanting to pork her. It just made you not care about how ugly she was.

What I mean to say, is that this kid probably already dreamed up ways to kill her, and get his revenge, and if (that's a big IF) he even drank, the only thing it would have done was make him care a little less about the consequences. Would not have pushed him over the edge. He was already long over the edge.

What pushed him over the edge was being a crazy killer. I guess I'm asserting that alcohol won't make you decide to kill someone. Drinking doesn't put the devil on your shoulder whispering into your ear... it will only make you less inclined to listen to the angel on your other shoulder.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by pylon

Weirdest part though, and I will never forget it. Is the guy offered to drive me to the hospital after to get sewn up, as he split my melon open.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Fair point but if kids have a proper inner circle (parents, friends, siblings, coaches, church members etc.) then they learn that Hollywood is what it is...entertainment. It's unfortunate that too many kids are taught life via tv, internet, music etc. not by that inner circle. It's one of the biggest black eyes of current society in my books.

Even the most supportive inner circle cannot fight the socialization that happens due to the media. The only way is to eliminate the media entirely - like the Amish perhaps? - and I don't see that happening ever.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

At this point you're grasping at straws. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you're wrong. We'll never know. All we do know for sure is that he shot 4 people and then turned the gun on himself. Clearly there were deeper issues.

I really do appreciate the discussion on this, as I don't have the answers either. As for "grasping at straws", that would infer that I am trying to defend the guy, again, I am not. I am just asking questions.

I like many here can't figure out why this happens. This is after many years of articles read, self reflection, talking to police, professionals, etc. That day still haunts me like it was yesterday. One day your friend is the most respected and loved person, the next he is gone, and his name is worse than mud.

I think it is easy for us to dismiss this guy as an all round loser. A guy who was rotten to the core, and this was bound to happen from Day 1. Again, that maybe true, but I also think it can be simplistic. I also think this is a way for us to feel better about ourselves that we or anyone we know could never do anything like this. I understand that.

The way I hear this guy explained by people he knew, and maybe I haven't read enough about him, is that he was overall for many years a smart, popular, and a nice guy. I think that is how he would have be explained at his funeral had he died in a car accident. Instead, that one night happens and now he is a life long psycho who anyone should have seen this coming.

So my point is that these types of guys are out there. They are ticking time bombs waiting to go off. The issue is that they don't know it, and neither will you (18 years and I didn't know). They can be a father, brother, or a friend. However, when they do hit that snapping point, I believe these guys enter a period of insanity where they lose all grip on reality. This can be a few minutes, or a few hours, I don't really think I can give you a time frame. They coldly carry out their plan, and there is little anyone can do about it.

So all I am trying to say is that this stuff bothers me more than you can know. I have spent years trying to get a profile on these people, and I can't. The experts (police/professionals) I've talked to say in many cases they can't either, despite what the paper's so called experts say.

So dismiss this guy as a life long creep you never would have befriended. I just want to warn you that with these cases, it just isn't that simple.

I would have liked to end by giving you advice on how this can be prevented in your life. Sadly I can't, and I really wish I could. That is what bugs me the most.