2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

What's a whopper of an offer? Around 60 million?

$50+ million.

Teams may be leery after Dice-K flamed out (although he provided nearly 8 WAR combined in his first two seasons), but the big names (Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies) are all confirmed to be out of the running so I'd imagine the winning bid will be similar to Dice-K.

The big difference between the two is that Dice-K was worn down by the time he came over here. He had pitched 400 more innings than Darvish at the same age and that doesn't include the ridiculous over-use he faced as teenager (google it). By all accounts, Darvish is the superior pitcher and he has less mileage on him. As I mentioned above, Dice-K was very, very good his first two seasons in the MLB and just wore down due to injuries. I would expect Darvish to be at least as good to start and likely better.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Could be a sign and trade. The Yankees won the bid for shortshop Nakajima but he doesn't want to play there. They need to work out a sign and trade or he'll be back in Japan.

Doubt the MLB allows that. The Yankees can sign and trade Nakajima because no one really wanted him. There's no way the MLB would let a team put in a giant bid for Darvish with the sole intention of trading away his rights. It undermines the whole system.

[Otsy]

The whole international system is not good. Why should a team have to pay a Japanese team 50 million dollars to negotiate. If the player wants to leave Japan then so be it. Maybe he should play out his contract and then go, but still shouldn't have to fork over that much.

Also the International signing period sucks having to give teenagers like Miguel Sano (16 years old) from the twins over 3 million signing bonus because they're not eligible for the draft.

Entirely way too much money is spent in baseball and it hurts teams because obviously they won't all pan out and it's just a waste.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Otsy

The whole international system is not good. Why should a team have to pay a Japanese team 50 million dollars to negotiate. If the player wants to leave Japan then so be it. Maybe he should play out his contract and then go, but still shouldn't have to fork over that much.

Also the International signing period sucks having to give teenagers like Miguel Sano (16 years old) from the twins over 3 million signing bonus because they're not eligible for the draft.

Entirely way too much money is spent in baseball and it hurts teams because obviously they won't all pan out and it's just a waste.

Darvish is perfectly capable of playing out his contract in Japan and then coming over. I think the main issue is that contract lengths are very long in Japan so players don't typically hit free agency very often and when they do it might be too late to draw interest.

The international signing period does have it's advantages though. Without those huge signing bonuses the majority of these kids never pick up a baseball bat. Look at Puerto Rico - after the MLB changed it so they were eligible for the draft the amount of quality major leaguers went way, way down. Guys starts playing soccer and volleyball instead and followed the money. The problem is that it's so difficult to make the MLB and the vast majority of guys don't even get a sniff at the high minors. Without those huge signing bonuses it's just not worth the risk for guys from impoverished countries to try and ultimately the MLB ends up losing out on potential stars.

[dustyanddaflames]

So if they Jays do win the bid - what do people think Darvish's contract will look like if here were to sign? 50-75 million total, maybe more? That is a lot of dollars for someone who has never played in a MLB baseball game before.

[Otsy]

I understand Darvish is perfectly capable of playing out his contract and coming over. I just think it's ######ed the amount of money involved in just getting the ability to talk to the guy. 50+ million then his salary on top of it. That's a lotta coin. I don't see it going to change anytime soon, but it just helps peoples opinions of baseball that money will get all the perks since there's no cap to the spending

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

So if they Jays do win the bid - what do people think Darvish's contract will look like if here were to sign? 50-75 million total, maybe more? That is a lot of dollars for someone who has never played in a MLB baseball game before.

4 years 60 million would be my guess.

So I estimate 60 million bid + 60 million contract for 120 million total.

Peanuts

[Jason14h]

I can not see a team drop 50 mil for neg rights and settleing for a 4 year deal.

55 posting + 7 years/80 million

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Otsy

I understand Darvish is perfectly capable of playing out his contract and coming over. I just think it's ######ed the amount of money involved in just getting the ability to talk to the guy. 50+ million then his salary on top of it. That's a lotta coin. I don't see it going to change anytime soon, but it just helps peoples opinions of baseball that money will get all the perks since there's no cap to the spending

Well there's not a whole lot the MLB can do it. It's the Japanese league that has the posting system.

They have players under contract and if the MLB wants them they have to pay what they want. Not much the MLB can do, but try and encourage Japanese players to break their contracts or something along those lines.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by JayP

Well there's not a whole lot the MLB can do it. It's the Japanese league that has the posting system.

They have players under contract and if the MLB wants them they have to pay what they want. Not much the MLB can do, but try and encourage Japanese players to break their contracts or something along those lines.

This posting system was put together by both MLB and the Japanese league, NPB. It was to prevent star players from Japan league bolting to the MLB without compensation to their former teams. It essentially provides both leagues some controlling power over players and minimize abuse to the system from import players not wanting to sign with teams who brought them overseas.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Otsy

I understand Darvish is perfectly capable of playing out his contract and coming over. I just think it's ######ed the amount of money involved in just getting the ability to talk to the guy. 50+ million then his salary on top of it. That's a lotta coin. I don't see it going to change anytime soon, but it just helps peoples opinions of baseball that money will get all the perks since there's no cap to the spending

There has been suggestion by for example Scott Boras-Matsuzaka's agent to have a sliding scale system instead of posting. Essentially, the former japanese team will get compensation based on a percent of the player's salary but charged to the team not the player. The longer the player stays with that MLB team the higher the percentage each year on.

[Matty81]

Not a huge fan of the posting system, but even worse is how clandestine it is even after the process is over. Tell us who won ffs. Whether or not the Ham Fighters (snicker every time I say it) accept or not, there is no reason for fans to still be in the dark with no idea when it will come out.

I'd frankly be shocked if it is the Jays but I am really hoping it is - they really need to make a decent sized financial move this summer with the clampdown on draft and latin spending coming. I think they have a lot of goodwill from their fans and another year with the same record and no signs of spending or progress and I think you might even see their attendance get worse than last year by July.

They should have gone out to win the bidding regardless, because if you decide not to sign the player you keep your cash anyway as far as I know and prevent keep the Yanks or Rangers from signing him for another year.

[d_phaneuf]

NY Post has the Jays with the highest bid

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yanke...1gcFbjA9QYntaM

[flames_1987]

NY Post does say the bid by the Cubs is not known.

I'd want this for two reasons
1) The guy has some pretty amazing stuff and at 25 he comes in able to start throwing right away. Not having to treat him as a rookie or really limit his throwing. I think he signs if in fact the Jays win the bid. Beautiful, multicultural city like Toronto should be attractive enough.

2) It shuts every mindless fan up about Rogers not wanting to see this team win or compete by spending any money.

And I guess 3) We get someone who can pitch at the top of our rotation while keeping our farm team untouched and the possibility of the moves that could be made to strengthen this team even more.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Not a huge fan of the posting system, but even worse is how clandestine it is even after the process is over. Tell us who won ffs. Whether or not the Ham Fighters (snicker every time I say it) accept or not, there is no reason for fans to still be in the dark with no idea when it will come out.

I'd frankly be shocked if it is the Jays but I am really hoping it is - they really need to make a decent sized financial move this summer with the clampdown on draft and latin spending coming. I think they have a lot of goodwill from their fans and another year with the same record and no signs of spending or progress and I think you might even see their attendance get worse than last year by July.

They should have gone out to win the bidding regardless, because if you decide not to sign the player you keep your cash anyway as far as I know and prevent keep the Yanks or Rangers from signing him for another year.

The suspense is almost unbearable. However, one pf the stipulation of the posting is the team with the highest bid shall remain anonymous to the Japanese team holding Darvish's rights. If the highest bid is accepted within the 4 business days then the team will be revealed.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by VERVE

The suspense is almost unbearable.

likely gotta wait till tuesday in japan for word from the fighters...it's too long!

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Matty81

.... Whether or not the Ham Fighters (snicker every time I say it) accept or not, there is no reason for fans to still be in the dark with no idea when it will come out.

I wondered about that too. While I was there, I had asked (translated to Japanese via wife) my father-inlaw who is an avid baseball fan of the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters, why the name Nippon Ham Fighters. Nippon Ham is a food company that makes and distributes Nippon Ham and is the main sponsor/owner of the team. I guess most of the teams have some sort of sponsor/owner 's name associated with them.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

likely gotta wait till tuesday in japan for word from the fighters...it's too long!

Hopefully sooner...

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by VERVE

Hopefully sooner...

Agreed...but not lookin so:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...90096/33881643

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

NY Post has the Jays with the highest bid

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yanke...1gcFbjA9QYntaM

I hope this is so...