UBC study finds believers distrust atheists as much as rapists

[Thor]

Originally Posted by bradster57

I love that argument when Christians get upset and hurl some insults etc. It's like when David Suzuki protests against oil and gas yet continues to fly his private jets to the locations.

Serious question for the athiests and I don't want to start a new thread but are any of you offended by the "Merry Christmas" saying this time of year? Or has Christmas become more of a cultural holiday to you?

The furthest thing from it, I say Merry Christmas more than I´d say Happy Holidays, mind you that was in Canada in Iceland its just Merry Yule, so no biggie here.

Atheists, agnostics, non religious... they can all just celebrate any and all holidays without having to adhere to their religious reasons, excellent examples of that is obviously Christmas and Easter. Just great excuses to get together with friends and family and be together.

Even growing up in my family there wasn't any religious meaning towards Christmas, to us its always just been a holiday to share great food, presents and be thankful for what we have.

I think those atheists and non religious that have a problem with Christmas are really missing the point and are wasting their energy on something equally as stupid as Fox's war on Christmas crap we see every year.

[MarchHare]

Serious question for the athiests and I don't want to start a new thread but are any of you offended by the "Merry Christmas" saying this time of year? Or has Christmas become more of a cultural holiday to you?

I'm not offended by "Merry Christmas" at all; nor is my best friend who is Jewish. I have no idea why so many Christians get righteously indignant over "the war on Christmas" every year. None of the non-believers or followers of other religions I know care at all if someone wishes them a "merry Christmas". Ditto for organizations that call the decoration in their lobby a "holiday tree" instead of a Christmas tree.

I suspect it came about because businesses were overly paranoid about offending potential customers, not because anyone was ever legitimately offended.

[fundmark19]

If all these religious groups don't seem to care about "Merry Christmas" Why is it banned from all public schools? Heck why is Santa Clause now banned from public schools. It is turning into a word that kids can't say in class so they go out to the playground and say it under their breath and start giggling because they are breaking the rules.

[photon]

There's a pretty obvious difference between conversation between private citizens and promoted material from public schools.

That's the thing about rules, is they cut both ways.

EDIT: Which schools is "Merry Christmas" banned in anyway? I surely hope it's not "banned" in the same way that people get all worked up about prayer being "banned", where "banned" doesn't mean banned at all.

[fundmark19]

My neighbors daughters school has been advising not to say Mary Christmas for past couple years and this year they have added Santa Clause can not be mentioned as well. During their Christmas concert they were not allowed to sing any Holiday songs that referenced Santa.

**I can't say how extreme it is as I don't have kids but regardless I find it ######ed how schools/public places can't have merry christmas and happy holidays or singing songs regarding Santa How does Santa Offend anyone?

[photon]

Advising who? In what context? There's a difference between saying they can't say "Merry Christmas" during the spoken part of a program or performance or a teacher to the whole class and saying any child can't say it to their friends.

[fundmark19]

Would have been a communication sent home to the parents. How does it make a difference?

Kid Saying Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays in a school Concert following the singing of Santa Claus is Coming to Town

Kid Saying Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays on school playground after and impromptu Karaoke session of Christmas carols with friends.

I don't see how either of those would offend anyone in any situation no matter what religion they are.

[photon]

One might be an appropriate response to account for all represented cultures and religions in a secular school, the other would be an unreasonable restriction.

What you find offensive and what others find offensive is different, it's easy not to be offended when one's part of the majority.

And I'm highly skeptical that the communication sent home is being represented fairly, almost every case of this I've seen has been misrepresented in some way. Suggesting kids use happy holidays to try and be inclusive to their peers is different than saying "Merry Christmas" is banned.

[fundmark19]

So you are ok with Canada losing its culture all together then so we can be tolerable to others because they are a minority?

As far as I can remember Christmas/Holidays have been celebrated in schools throughout Canada. Catholic as well as Public. Santa always came and delivered present to Catholic and Agnostic Families as well as some Jewish families that I knew. I am not as old as some members on this board but others can chime in if they had different experiences.

So why now last 5-10 years are we changing Canada's culture that has been around for last 140 odd years. Is it a coincidence that this seems to be the same time frame that people have started to push that they are atheists and trying to have atheist rights, instead of being impartial to holiday/religious celebrations as people were in the past?

I will be surprised if children are even taught English in schools in the future here. French all ready seems to be on its way out. Why bother speak English and each child's mother tongue language, we all know someone is just going to complain that it is unfair and against their beliefs to have to learn another language and we will roll over and give into their requests because we are afraid of offending anyone.

If someone can tell me how Santa Claus can possibly offend anyone please let me know.

[MacGr3gor]

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

So you are ok with Canada losing its culture all together then so we can be tolerable to others because they are a minority?

As far as I can remember Christmas/Holidays have been celebrated in schools throughout Canada. Catholic as well as Public. Santa always came and delivered present to Catholic and Agnostic Families as well as some Jewish families that I knew. I am not as old as some members on this board but others can chime in if they had different experiences.

So why now last 5-10 years are we changing Canada's culture that has been around for last 140 odd years. Is it a coincidence that this seems to be the same time frame that people have started to push that they are atheists and trying to have atheist rights, instead of being impartial to holiday/religious celebrations as people were in the past?

I will be surprised if children are even taught English in schools in the future here. French all ready seems to be on its way out. Why bother speak English and each child's mother tongue language, we all know someone is just going to complain that it is unfair and against their beliefs to have to learn another language and we will roll over and give into their requests because we are afraid of offending anyone.

If someone can tell me how Santa Claus can possibly offend anyone please let me know.

"Healthy" cultures evolve and grow. Your great, great, great, great, great granddaddy's Canada isn't the Canada of today. What you have now is a progression.

Unhealthy cultures don't evolve and grow and therefore stagnate. You could point to a lot of Middle Eastern cultures like that.

Cowperson

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

So you are ok with Canada losing its culture all together then so we can be tolerable to others because they are a minority?

As far as I can remember Christmas/Holidays have been celebrated in schools throughout Canada. Catholic as well as Public. Santa always came and delivered present to Catholic and Agnostic Families as well as some Jewish families that I knew. I am not as old as some members on this board but others can chime in if they had different experiences.

So why now last 5-10 years are we changing Canada's culture that has been around for last 140 odd years. Is it a coincidence that this seems to be the same time frame that people have started to push that they are atheists and trying to have atheist rights, instead of being impartial to holiday/religious celebrations as people were in the past?

I will be surprised if children are even taught English in schools in the future here. French all ready seems to be on its way out. Why bother speak English and each child's mother tongue language, we all know someone is just going to complain that it is unfair and against their beliefs to have to learn another language and we will roll over and give into their requests because we are afraid of offending anyone.

If someone can tell me how Santa Claus can possibly offend anyone please let me know.

How do you possibly link Canada losing all of its culture with schools wanting children to use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Is English not being taught in schools in the future the fault of atheists, too, or something else you're edging around and not willing to say?

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

How do you possibly link Canada losing all of its culture with schools wanting children to use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Is English not being taught in schools in the future the fault of atheists, too, or something else you're edging around and not willing to say?

Not at all.

I could care less about Merry Christmas part I get it, has Christ in it. But why Santa! Why are we now getting rid of Santa, what did he ever do to piss off some adults enough to take him out of children's lives.

It has nothing to do with atheists as it is to Canada as a whole not wanting to offend anyone's relgion/belief system that we do everything to accommodate everyone Canada will no longer have it's own identity.

[Tinordi]

It's not backwards to say happy holidays instead of Christmas. It's more inclusive.

What most people getting in a snit about don't understand is that this is an issue moreso of power, social power and institutional instead of religious freedom.

The "Christian" identity in Canada is dominant and therefore peopel who don't identify with that (like alot of immigrants) can feel alienated and left out. There's nothing wrong with removing the official institutional momentum behind "Christmas" to holidays. Tries to break down those power barriers for many people, which is a good thing.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Not at all.

I could care less about Merry Christmas part I get it, has Christ in it. But why Santa! Why are we now getting rid of Santa, what did he ever do to piss off some adults enough to take him out of children's lives.

It has nothing to do with atheists as it is to Canada as a whole not wanting to offend anyone's relgion/belief system that we do everything to accommodate everyone Canada will no longer have it's own identity.

How sure are you it's not conservative Canadian Christians themselves trying to get rid of Santa and restore the holiday to what they perceive as its "Christian" roots? After all, Santa Claus has absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Christ.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by MacGr3gor

That's quite the vision problem. I doubt even corrective lenses would fix that.

[fundmark19]

This is the list of Holidays in December

8-16 - Hanukkah* (Jewish)
12 - Virgin of Guadalupe (Mexico)
13 - Santa Lucia Day (Sweden)
16-25 - Las Posadas (Mexico)
25 - Christmas (Christian, Roman Catholic, International)
26 - Boxing Day (Canada, United Kingdom)
26 - Kwanzaa (African-American)

By saying Happy Holidays we are including 5 Different groups. People don't seem to complain that they get christmas and boxing day off regardless of their religion or beliefs. Should we re-name Christmas to universal generic holiday day?

[Tinordi]

Everyone getting Christmas off is an example of institutional power imbalances. Why shouldn't each person of each faith choose the statutory holiday that complies with their beliefs instead of having the 25th, Christmas being imposed on everyone?

[RougeUnderoos]

Gotta love the manufactured outrage over the WAR ON CHRISTMAS.

I mean seriously, if the kids in the school down the street are singing Jingle Bell Rock instead of Away in a Manger, why would I possibly care? Who does care?

If this is an "attack on our culture", I think we can handle it.

What, kids that aren't mine have less Santa Claus in their holidays? Oh NO!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Everyone getting Christmas off is an example of institutional power imbalances. Why shouldn't each person of each faith choose the statutory holiday that complies with their beliefs instead of having the 25th, Christmas being imposed on everyone?

Because it's practical the way it is now and impractical the way you've proposed.

Fundmark - before you get your shirt too far in a knot, you should ask to see the policy you're railing against. I'll bet you $100 it has been misrepresented to you simply because the way you're describing it makes no sense.