2011/2012 MLB Off-season Thread

[socalwingfan]

I heard yesterday that the Angels were serious players for Pujols - same person is saying that CJ Wilson signing is expected soon.

[moon]

F'ing Pujols hope the money was worth ruining his legacy.

I don't think the Cards go after Fielder, but I also thought there was no way either Pujols or the Cards were dumb enough to have him leave. I think they will play Craig or Berkman as the full time 1B with the other guy in RF.

It would have been nice to know Pujols wasn't coming back and gone after Reyes who really fills a need but with the Marlins offer I am not sure the Cards would have beaten that, nor should they have.

[dustyanddaflames]

Would be quite a day for the Angels to land Pujols and Wilson... They need a solid #2 IMO behind Weaver, as I think Santana makes a better option as a #3 starter. Just another Thursday...

Moon, where do you think the Cards go from here? Craig/Berkman is good options, but am more so referencing their glaring hole at ss, as it doesn't sound like Furcal is coming back.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by moon

F'ing Pujols hope the money was worth ruining his legacy.

I don't think the Cards go after Fielder, but I also thought there was no way either Pujols or the Cards were dumb enough to have him leave. I think they will play Craig or Berkman as the full time 1B with the other guy in RF.

It would have been nice to know Pujols wasn't coming back and gone after Reyes who really fills a need but with the Marlins offer I am not sure the Cards would have beaten that, nor should they have.

Ruining his legacy? Not allowed to change teams anymore? I think the AL is a better fit for him anyway, will probably do more and more DH'ing after 5 years, maybe before.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

I wonder if the Cards get in on Fielder now. I'm thinking we might see the A's pull the trigger on a deal or 2 today as well.

I was thinking that too. Now its going to get really interesting with Fielder. Staying with Milwaukee vaults them over St. Louis, going to St. Louis makes them clear favorites, going to Chicago hurts both St. Louis and Milwaukee. He'd be a game changer for Seattle. Would form part of the best 3-4 in baseball in Toronto.

[dustyanddaflames]

Ya I don't think this hurts Pujols' legacy outside of St. Louis, as the days are gone where franchise players play their careers out in one city. Will be interesting to hear what the Lou's final offer was and how close they were to what Anaheim had offered.

[socalwingfan]

CJ Wilson signs with Angels now official

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by socalwingfan

CJ Wilson signs with Angels now official

wow, the angels kinda making a bit of a splash today.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Pujols may have just became my most hated player

[moon]

Originally Posted by Otsy

Ruining his legacy? Not allowed to change teams anymore? I think the AL is a better fit for him anyway, will probably do more and more DH'ing after 5 years, maybe before.

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Ya I don't think this hurts Pujols' legacy outside of St. Louis, as the days are gone where franchise players play their careers out in one city. Will be interesting to hear what the Lou's final offer was and how close they were to what Anaheim had offered.

Perhaps ruined his legacy is a bit harsh and yes players can change teams but Pujols is different from the average guy as he has potential to go down as a top 5 guy all time. I do think that him switching teams does take some of the shine off of him especially when the decision was 100% financial.

I also think that if he starts to decline he will get a lot less sympathy from media/fans than if he stayed in St. Louis which will also hurt his legacy.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by socalwingfan

CJ Wilson signs with Angels now official

5 years, 75 mil

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by moon

Perhaps ruined his legacy is a bit harsh and yes players can change teams but Pujols is different from the average guy as he has potential to go down as a top 5 guy all time. I do think that him switching teams does take some of the shine off of him especially when the decision was 100% financial.

I also think that if he starts to decline he will get a lot less sympathy from media/fans than if he stayed in St. Louis which will also hurt his legacy.

Excellent point, was brought up the other day on MLB radio when they were talking Pujols to Miami... the only difference is Pujols will be a DH by that time in Anaheim, rather than playing 1B with the Marlins.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by moon

Perhaps ruined his legacy is a bit harsh and yes players can change teams but Pujols is different from the average guy as he has potential to go down as a top 5 guy all time. I do think that him switching teams does take some of the shine off of him especially when the decision was 100% financial.

I also think that if he starts to decline he will get a lot less sympathy from media/fans than if he stayed in St. Louis which will also hurt his legacy.

Good points, but can you be sure it's 100% financial? He won two championships there, maybe he wants a fresh start? Maybe he was mad Holiday got a whole pile of cash before he did. I don't know, never will, could be all about the money. I do feel bad for St Louis, sucks when you lose arguably one of the greatest players to ever play. My favorite Pujols HR is still the one he hit in 9th inning in Houston over the railroad tracks in the NLCS.

"On Oct. 17, 2005, the Houston Astros were 1 out away from a 4-2 victory in Game 5 of the NLCS and a trip to the World Series, but those reservation would have to wait a game, thanks to Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols. Houston closer Brad Lidge had 2 outs in the 9th, but had allowed two runners to reach base ahead of the 2005 NL MVP. On an 0-1 count, Lidge hung a slider and Pujols pulled the trigger, blasting the ball through the light tower support in left field, well above the train tracks. Pujols' historic shot came off the bat at an estimated 119 mph, and impacted an estimated 95 feet above field level, 352 feet from home plate after a short 3.62 second flight that emptied the oxygen out of Minute Maid Park. Had the ball continued uninterrupted back to field level, it would have carried 455 feet, a truly monumental blast for the Cardinals star... "

[GirlySports]

That ball is still flying.

I do think it hurts his legacy. In the Hall of Fame class of a few years ago, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripkin Jr. were reveared and got over 90% of the voting alot due to playing an entire career with one team.

The more rare it is for a player to play his entire career for one team in todays game, the more valued it is. Pujols has now lost this.

[Otsy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That ball is still flying.

I do think it hurts his legacy. In the Hall of Fame class of a few years ago, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripkin Jr. were reveared and got over 90% of the voting alot due to playing an entire career with one team.

The more rare it is for a player to play his entire career for one team in todays game, the more valued it is. Pujols has now lost this.

They were regulars before free agency and money became huge. Who's going to be the next hall of famer to play their entire career with one team. It's so rare now that it's actually special. Won't diminish legacys anymore because it just doesn't happen. Great players have played for many teams and you don't remember them for just switching teams. Paul Molitor? Wade Boggs? Nolan Ryan? Hall of famers, legacy tarnished by playing for more then one team?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Otsy

Good points, but can you be sure it's 100% financial? He won two championships there, maybe he wants a fresh start? Maybe he was mad Holiday got a whole pile of cash before he did. I don't know, never will, could be all about the money.

That seems like pretty weak and selfish arguments as well.

I guess when I say it was about money I mean it wasn't like he was on the Pirates destined to be the lone guy on a 70 win team and wanted a chance to win. St. Louis gave him as good a chance as any team to win WS, was a place that he said himself he loved living in, was close to where he and his wife grew up and their families were and he seemed to value loyalty based on his comments about hoping Fielder re-signed in Milwaukee after the play-off series.

The whole ordeal seemed like a guy who wanted to get paid huge to validate a big ego.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That ball is still flying.

I do think it hurts his legacy. In the Hall of Fame class of a few years ago, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripkin Jr. were reveared and got over 90% of the voting alot due to playing an entire career with one team.

The more rare it is for a player to play his entire career for one team in todays game, the more valued it is. Pujols has now lost this.

I agree in that there is value for a player's legacy to play his whole career out in one city - but with the way revenues vary throughout the league, you can't blame some of these players for chasing the money either. What if Pujols was a Pittsburgh Pirate per se - would people still feel the same way? What is Pittsburgh was 40 mill short on a 200 million dollar offer from another club? Do people still feel the same way, I don't know. Money is money, and I will never be fortunate enough to know the difference between 200 million and 240 million - but regardless, it is still 40 million, and something most, if not all, will ever experience.

Or is this simply because St Louis has been successful with him, and were able to offer similiar *me assuming* dollars to what Pujols accepted in Anaheim? Essentially, what I am getting at, is it all comes down to dollars in the end. Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Jose Reyes, Manny Ramirez, Nick Hundley () - the greatest players of our time, all have chased the money. I wish it were different, as I miss the days where the crest on the jersey meant more than the thickness of ones wallet. But reality says those days are long gone - as it has become more of a status claiming ritual. I am better than player x, so I will get more money than him - regardless if it is with their hometown club or not. It really is a sad state, and I do feel terrible for Cardinal fans especially, as they are probably the best fans the MLB has to offer. I would only imagine this feels a lot like losing a son.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Otsy

They were regulars before free agency and money became huge. Who's going to be the next hall of famer to play their entire career with one team. It's so rare now that it's actually special. Won't diminish legacys anymore because it just doesn't happen. Great players have played for many teams and you don't remember them for just switching teams. Paul Molitor? Wade Boggs? Nolan Ryan? Hall of famers, legacy tarnished by playing for more then one team?

Derek Jeter, followed by Brett Lawrie.

[GirlySports]

There are some Hall of Famers that play for one team

Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
Chipper Jones

Does Ichiro count?

Some who could be if they continued the way they are
Robinson Cano
Chase Utley
Joe Mauer

[howard_the_duck]

What a disgusting contract to Pujols. Can't believe some of the money that's being given to players so far this offseason by the Marlins and Angels. Unbelievable