Quote:
Originally Posted by ken0042
The downtown subway plans are in the works; and the current estimated cost is somewhere near $1.2 billion. So for what the airport tunnel will cost we still aren't even in the ballpark. Nevermind that the preliminary work is still being completed. They are in the process of removing utilities from under 8th ave (where the subway will go)- and that is being done as ongoing work as opposed to adding 10's or 100's of millions to the final bill.
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Just adding a bit.
Subway plans aren't really actively "in the works" at this time. There's just a general planned horizontal alignment (one along 8th Avenue, and another along 2nd Street for the SE LRT). There had been a study commissioned, but I get the impression that its scale was greatly reduced from when it was originally budgeted, and then it became more of an independent consultancy firm's report that was only presented internally. To to a more robust study with preliminary engineering, some more decisions have to be made first that I don't think the City has been prepared to make to this point. This would include capacity requirements, station length and design (are there going to be mezzanines, an underground pedestrian network, etc.), staging (which goes first, southeast line with 2nd street Subway or 8th Avenue subway), any future subway alignments (possibly 7th Ave or other options?), etc.
Not sure where the $1.2 B figure came from. The costing really hasn't been done and will vary wildly depending on some of the above factors and tunneling methods.
Regarding subways and what should have been done from the start, etc. Remember that Edmonton built their subway downtown and the network built to date pales in comparison to Calgary due to the costs incurred.
That part of the story is well-known and often mentioned, but there's another thing to consider. The LRT service was unproven way back in the 70s and Calgary and Edmonton (along with San Diego) were really pioneers and still are in its application in North America. As it has played out, the LRT has had to prove itself as an infrastructure option before subways could be justified in both Calgary and Edmonton (other cities too, Dallas is currently retrofitting a subway in their downtown for their LRT network for example).
The counter-argument to the "Edmonton has less of a system because of the subway" point is that they will have an easier time with expanding their system than Calgary will (and indeed Calgary is starting to hit some capacity limits as everyone is aware). Thing is though, the Edmonton subway among Edmontonians - decision-makers and not - is seen as a mistake that shouldn't be repeated. In fact, Edmonton is currently in the process of designing at-grade line downtown for the future west and southeast legs of their system, even though the current tunnel could squeeze them in (
Link). Calgary on the other hand has justified building a tunnel through the tremendous success achieved by building a far-reaching system and it will actually get built. Higher costs, of course, but what is better? Doing the right thing later or abandoning the right thing later because of poor timing?
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As for safety and the charges by some that Calgary is among the worst for such instances, it really isn't the case. These things happen all over the country and the continent, it's just that they don't make national or international news. Several cities come immediately to mind. Strictly limiting it to LRT systems, Boston, Minneapolis and Houston have had more significant problems with pedestrian/private vehicle vs. train incidents.
Also, regarding calls for removal of level crossings:
1. The costs are enormous for them as a group, and even for several individual ones.
2. Deaths and injuries will still occur without them.
and most of all
3. The costs associated with these events, in isolation of other factors, will not be the cause for changes to the infrastructure. It's perhaps cold to say, but the costs and delays just aren't that significant in the grand scheme of things. Large-scale (level crossing retrofit) improvements will be driven almost entirely by capacity needs.
That said, some of these things are on the radar, again prompted mostly by capacity needs. The Heritage Drive crossing will be eliminated when an interchange is constructed there, and there's longer-term talk about burying the portion between Cemetery Hill and the CP Tunnel (Stampede and Erlton Stations stretch).
