UBC study finds believers distrust atheists as much as rapists

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I think it is more like a relationship between a parent and a child. I love God and want him to be pleased with my conduct.

Christianity is a pretty big tent though so I'm not sure what motivates others. As a baptist(and this isn't true for all baptists but, probably most) I don't believe I can lose my salvation. It was given as a gift. Sin can ruins fellowship with God today and sin can also destroy my life just because of sins own consequences. But, I'm safe eternally.

Ah, got it. I think I probably brought my own bias in by assuming that he was talking about judgement as opposed to talking about, shall we say, positive reinforcement.

Atheists don't have a guide book for right and wrong. That doesn't mean they will be immoral people. However, everyone including christians like to rationalize their failures or the wrongs they have done. It must be a heck of a lot easier to rationalize an excuse for yourself if you don't have that guide book staring you in the face telling you you've done wrong.

I can see that perspective. As an agnostic, when I try to rationalize a wrong that I've done, I know I'm being intellectually dishonest. As someone who prides themselves on having a well-reasoned moral framework, it gets to me and stays with me a long time when I go against it. Since it's something that I've worked out for myself, it has more importance to me than anything told to me by an external authority. Obviously not every atheist has a moral code, and a lot of people are going to weigh an authoritative guidebook above their own moral code. The two approaches are going to net the same result 99% of the time.

[Scotian Lotion]

Originally Posted by Kipperriffic

lol IMO, that is the LAST guy you want to go to when wanting a sane and rational opinion on anything

He amuses me.
Atheists, Christians and Muslims can all agree that amusement is never last on anyone's list.

Also, my wife catching me wandering around a university library, would be the same as her catching me wandering around a brothel.
Not gonna happen.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Scotian Lotion

Also, my wife catching me wandering around a university library, would be the same as her catching me wandering around a brothel.
Not gonna happen.

And with this ladies and gentlemen, your hopes of getting any rational discussion from this individual, are quashed.

But I am curious about your disdain for higher education though.

[Knalus]

To be honest. I am going to frame this argument in the first person, don't be fooled into actually believing this is actually what I think.


The big reason I feel that Christians distrust atheists, is because of the source of their morality, not their lack of it. As a Christian, my belief is that my morals come from a source other than just myself, that my code of conduct is one that is recognizable, and one that is significantly interpreted by other people, not just myself. As a Christian, I know what I should be expecting from other Christians in terms of conduct. I know that they may break that code of conduct, and that does happen all the time. But, I also know that those people will likely feel badly about breaking their own code of conduct, and that will lead them to avoid doing so. The point is, I know what to expect.

When dealing with an atheist, I don't know what to expect. Why is the guy an atheist? Is he an atheist because he's a scientist? I don't personally think that's a good reason to be an atheist, as I am a scientist and I reject that point of view, but at least I can understand it. Is he an atheist because he's a philosopher? Is he an atheist because he was hurt in some way by people he considers representative of Christians? Is he an atheist because he doesn't like Christians politically? Is he an atheist because it's the cool thing to do on the internet? The point is, Not only do I not know his motivation, but because there is no written code of conduct for an atheist I have no idea what to expect him to do. His conduct will be unknown. Likely, because there is nothing greater than him in the grand scheme of things, he will be looking out for himself. I cannot know that he will be doing anything beyond what is self serving.

Funny enough, the other category of rapist follows similar expectations of what I can expect. I do not know what the code of conduct of an atheist is, but I know it is not the same one that I follow - he (or she) rejected it. A rapist, by definition, has also rejected my code of conduct. I do not know what either of these two will do. They are a mystery in these terms.

Now, a Muslim, he does not share my code of conduct. But he does have one. My distrust likely stems from incomplete understanding of that code. I do know some things about it, and as a result I can expect certain actions from him. Or her. The fact that his code of conduct is not written by him to serve himself is something that allows me to feel that his conduct will be acceptable, especially for minor or public things. This is something that a Muslim has that an atheist can never have.


If you frame it in terms of expectation and conduct, instead of the private and provocative terms of belief, the results of this study become less incredulous. It isn't about whether or not you believe in a spiritual being that results in questions of trust, it's about how one individual understands another. Their motivations, and their resultant actions. It's as simple as that.

[evman150]

Isn't an atheist 50-100 times less likely to be in jail than a Christian? I don't have time to search for stats, but I'm pretty sure they're out there.

[evman150]

nm

[photon]

Knalus that is shockingly insulting, and I don't think that was your intent (thats not your style) so I don't even know if there's a place to start to reply.

I'll have to think about it.

ETA: heh I did miss the first part about it not being your pov, but it's still incredibly insulting and I'd that's the thought process... Words fail.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by NBC

I think atheists should be demanding the silencing of appallingly poor grammar.

From: blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-real-stuff-white-people-like/

Yeah, I know it's not the most formal, scientific source, but it's still very telling.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by SebC

From: blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-real-stuff-white-people-like/

Yeah, I know it's not the most formal, scientific source, but it's still very telling.

Your trying too hard and it's not neccessary. A few reasonable posters isn't going to risk your well deserved position in Christian's hearts.

[Kipperriffic]

Here's a study:

All atheists are rapists but not all rapists are atheists.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Kipperriffic

Here's a study:

All atheists are rapists but not all rapists are atheists.

Yeah, those Catholic priests? Never happened.

[Wormius]

Why does being an atheist have to have some political or anti-Christian angle? I just, simply do not believe in any kind of god. I wasn't raised with it, and it has had no other reason to enter my consciousness.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Why does being an atheist have to have some political or anti-Christian angle? I just, simply do not believe in any kind of god. I wasn't raised with it, and it has had no other reason to enter my consciousness.

It doesn't, but rather than see the nuances in things it's easier to just paint everyone with a nice broad paintbrush, much easier to maintain the "I'm right" illusion.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by photon

It doesn't, but rather than see the nuances in things it's easier to just paint everyone with a nice broad paintbrush, much easier to maintain the "I'm right" illusion.

Photon the nature of a survey requires one to make generalizations.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Scotian Lotion

If I do get a warning for sharing my views, I would hope everyone involved in any type of religious discussion would get the same.

Most forums ban threads like this all together, because they never end on a positive note. I read the rules and saw no mention of anything relating to religion, so my guess is my account will be in good standing.

Are differing views allowed here? As far as I can tell, I am not asking anyone to subscribe to my agenda.
Another member asked me to clarify a previous statement I made, and that's what I did.

You're a lawyer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


with that said, I will bow out of this thread, since I just got here and I didn't join this forum to discuss religion or bring my Ontario issues with me. I joined this to forget about them.

Let me give you a bit of a heads up. Hate speech is generally frowned upon here.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Photon the nature of a survey requires one to make generalizations.

I wasn't talking about the survey though, I was responding to his general statement about atheists need to have some political or anti-Christian angle. It doesn't.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Another way to look at this moral issue between believers and atheists was articulated in the book Escape from Freedom by Eric Fromm.

Essentially, it is easier for a person to let someone else fill in the answers to life's tough questions than to grapple with them yourself. This is a big reason for the rise of the Nazi's, the strength of the Catholic Church etc (as examples of AUTHORITARIAN regimes...which isn't necessarily the same as religious groups although many religous groups have authoritarian tendencies).

So yes, when you look at a religious person you may think you know their playbook...however, how much of their worldview have they tested themselves and how much have they just accepted because someone told them that was the case.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by photon

Knalus that is shockingly insulting, and I don't think that was your intent (thats not your style) so I don't even know if there's a place to start to reply.

I'll have to think about it.

ETA: heh I did miss the first part about it not being your pov, but it's still incredibly insulting and I'd that's the thought process... Words fail.

I see you are thinking about it, but I am curious, what about it is insulting?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I see you are thinking about it, but I am curious, what about it is insulting?

I even found the font to be ignorant bordering on silly.

Personally, you'll have to make an argument without preemptively distancing yourself from it for me to expand on my opinion of it.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yeah, I know it's not the most formal, scientific source, but it's still very telling.

My biggest problem with religion is the inherent intellectual dishonesty of it. That chart supports my claim.

If a devout theist is willing to concede, or intelligently counter-argue, the standing arguments against theism then I really have no problem with him/her. It's those that dismiss the arguments without addressing them that I oppose.